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Author Topic: Questioning chirine ba kal  (Read 1344590 times)

Greentongue

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #465 on: July 25, 2015, 05:31:16 pm »
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844329
"It depends."

Tsolyanu is an empire of millions of people, millions of acres, and many cities, towns, and villages.  Look long enough and far enough and you'll find damn near anything.

I specifically meant Jakalla since that is the traditional starting place.

On a separate note ... how are people named? Typically in societies where the family is more important than the individual the family name is given first.
In EPT shouldn't it be Clan, Family, then Given name?
The rule book doesn't do this so the importance of Clan over individual is not as front and center as later sources emphasize.

In your opinion wouldn't this be a simple way to reinforce that Clan comes First?
=

chirine ba kal

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #466 on: July 25, 2015, 06:40:32 pm »
Quote from: AsenRG;844324
Is that why they love dual-wielding:D?

Also, yeah, that's part of why I chose to put my game in Livyanu. I can always change stuff back once we reach Jakalla:).
For all my faults, I've never thought I am above such things as getting setting details wrong the first time I play a new setting.

I got it while thinking I'm changing it. That confirms that it's a setting that follows a logic I can relate to, I guess;).


See? You too can do Tekumel!!! :)

AsenRG

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #467 on: July 25, 2015, 06:46:06 pm »
Quote from: chirine ba kal;844355
See? You too can do Tekumel!!! :)


I've always known that I can:).
I'm trying to get as good a picture of how you were doing it, though, because I believe your experience and MAR Barker's level of expertise to be valuable.
Other than that, I've long since said that the setting becomes mine the moment I start Refereeing, and nothing short of Luck Points can change that even for a moment;).
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chirine ba kal

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #468 on: July 25, 2015, 07:08:51 pm »
Quote from: Greentongue;844325
Are there bathhouses and water closets for public use?
When on the street do people use the closest wall or allyway to releave themselves?

Are perfumes and scented oils popular?
How often do people bath?

Are there food vendors on the streets or only clan house that sspecialize in specific foods and drinks?
=



Let's see. Waterclosets yes, as poop is a resource that isn't wasted - fertilizer, you know. Bathhouses, no, as you'd do that in your clan house or at the guest house you're staying at. Or at a friend's or at your temple.

When they are in the Foreigners' Quarter, or in the Underworld. Or off the side of the ship - downwind side, please - or out in the country. Or anywhere, any time, if you're an Ahoggya. (Which is why they don't get invited to parties.)

Yes and yes. the richer and more high-status you are, the more you bathe. When I had my new palace renovated, I had the Tinaliya install a very fancy bathroom for Their Ladyships (and for me, so I can soak my back - old injury) which is very nice, and one of these days I'll figure out what all the controls do. (Hire Tinaliya as plumbers at your own risk, although the results do provide a lot of laughs.)

Yes, to both, but as the Glorious General says it depends on the location and the society's context. In Jakalla (and I know I'm anticipating your later post here) you do find street vendors in the Foreigners' Quarter. Nobody with any pretension to class eats at them. The richer parts of town, no, you don't find them. There are lots of 'food' clans, all of which specialize in something; think Victorian tradesmen. There are also a couple of 'provisioning' clans, which specialize in getting ships and caravans supplied with foodstuff that will last for quite a while; Harchar's Purser, "Hardtack", is a member of one of these clans. Generally, 'classy people' deal with the reputable clans. (Less chance of food poisoning, that way.) These clans also have 'storefronts' where they will show off and sell their wares, in the hope of attracting your custom. Phil used to have a list of all the best places to eat in India, which he used in Tekumel, and we had a lot of fun negotiating food contracts over brunch with the clan elders...

Planet Algol

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #469 on: July 25, 2015, 07:39:39 pm »
I'm interested in hearing what you know about the silver suits and the pariah deities.
Yeah, but who gives a fuck? You? Jibba?

Well congrats. No one else gives a shit, so your arguments are a waste of breath.

chirine ba kal

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #470 on: July 25, 2015, 07:54:42 pm »
Quote from: Greentongue;844338
I specifically meant Jakalla since that is the traditional starting place.

On a separate note ... how are people named? Typically in societies where the family is more important than the individual the family name is given first.
In EPT shouldn't it be Clan, Family, then Given name?
The rule book doesn't do this so the importance of Clan over individual is not as front and center as later sources emphasize.

In your opinion wouldn't this be a simple way to reinforce that Clan comes First?
=


See my previous post on food... :)

Names - here we go!!! :)

Generally, in the Five Empires it's 'personal', 'lineage', and 'clan'. In the Nyemsel Islands, it's always 'lineage/clan' (they are the same thing, there) first, followed by the personal name; hence, Lord Chirine ba Kal of the Clan of the Iron Helm, and Lady Si N'te. Titles and positions get tacked on at the end of the clan name; the honorific 'lord/lady' title is at the beginning, as are military and temple rank titles.

In EPT / Tekumel, as Phil did it, one was never called 'personal name' by anyone but the closest of personal friends or clan-siblings. One was always introduced as 'rank' (if any) 'personal' 'lineage' 'clan', which told the person you were meeting just who you were and where you were in society. Also, you are wearing your clan's unique glyph, which tell anyone looking at you what your family is. You often have your temple glyph displayed as well; normally, you can be identified by your dress and accessories at a distance, which tell on-looker what family / clan you are from.

The Tsolyani concept of the family is a little different from ours. I am part of a lineage (an obscure one, admittedly!), and I have a large and extended 'family' of co-husbands, co-wives, co-children, and hordes of co-cousins. Some are part of my lineage, some are not; some are part of my clan, some are not. Let's look at my teen-aged daughter Elara (her mother is classically-minded) as an example. Elara was born out of an encounter with her mother while the party was staying in their village; the custom of that place, as they are mostly Avanthe worshippers, is for a guest to lie with the village headman's wife for a night in return for the village's hospitality. I got 'volunteered' by the party, and Elara came along nine months later. We all sat around the village working out the timing, (and since the kid looks like me but better) and so I acknowledged her as my child. Due to my frequent travels, she has been raised in the village by her mother and father - I have been 'adopted' as a co-husband. After I got married, Their Ladyships all adopted her themselves, which resulted in her having - I need to take a deep breath, here, and use all my fingers and toes to get this right - a total of:

Two fathers; three mothers; three 'aunties'; and eleven co-siblngs, consisting of eight girls and five boys, all of different ages. Three of this mob, the twins and Elara, are 'mine' by genetics; the rest are my adopted kids. (And that's just from 'my side' of the family.) On her mother's side, she's got a whole bunch more siblings, all of which are considered cousins to the kids I have. (The reverse is also true, by the way.) I am, to my great delight, their "Uncle Chirine".

I also have heaps of my own lineage- and clan-cousins, like my cousin Tsomukh ba Kal over at the Temple of Thumis, where she's a Scholar-Priestess specializing in astronomy.

This why you usually have a majordomo to keep it all straight, or the elders of the clan or village. And, if I may quote my large - and lethal! - collection of kids: "She's our sister. Got a problem with that, Noble Sir?"

Inside the family quarters, there is no rank or title; 'seniority' is by generation, with honorifics like 'poppa', 'momma', 'uncle', 'auntie', and 'cousin' as examples. out in public, it's all three names for introductions, and the honorific for regular use. I am normally addressed as 'Sir' by my troops, with an occasional 'Lord' or 'Commander' thrown in for variety; Their Ladyships address me as 'Husband', and the older kids as appropriate to the situation - some of them are also my officers. The younger kids try to use the right honorific, but usually it's "Oi! Poppa!" - followed by a request to get the keys to the palanquin for the evening...

Has any of this helped? I can see where you're coming from, but Phil tended to use the forms he'd learned in South Asia. Hence all of the above; I've described this to people from there, and they think it's all perfectly normal - "Just like we do at home!", gushed one matronly 'Auntie' I was explaining Tekumel to at Phil's memorial event...

chirine ba kal

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« Reply #471 on: July 26, 2015, 12:51:40 am »
Quote from: Planet Algol;844367
I'm interested in hearing what you know about the silver suits and the pariah deities.


I missed your question earlier, but here I am - fashionably late, as always... :)

The Silver Suits are one of those mysteries that came in in the late 1980s and early 1990s, after Somebody - like the Mu'uglavyani - started screwing around with inter-planar travel. They attracted a lot of attention in the wrong places Somewhere Out There, and these humanoids in silver-colored metallic suits started showing up and raiding Tekumel. You can't find out what's in the suit; the suit self-destructs if the wearer is killed or mortally wounded. The suit seems, to us SF fans of a certain age, some sort of battle armor; and no, it ain't the cap troopers. It's somebody else entirely, folks that you really don't want to mess with. They usually drop in through a Nexus Point, shoot the place up and steal any magical items that they can get their hand on. They don't seem interested in anything else, in my experience.

And as to who or what they are, I happen to know - on both level that Phil laid this one out; it's one of The Big Secrets Of Tekumel (pat. pend.) and Phil left some pretty juicy hints about it in his works. It's one of his 'in-jokes' that you will get, if you think long and hard, and I'll give you a little hint: I am allied with their ancient foes, who wear interesting jewelry.

The Pariah Gods are another kettle of fish entirely. They oppose the classic Twenty of Pavar, and are considered such big poopie-butts by the Twenty that they are Not Welcome in the Five Empires. They do have temples and worshippers elsewhere on Tekumel, such as in the empire on the other side of the planet from us. (Why, yes, I have been there; Lord Fu Hsi is from there, too.) They oppose what the Twenty stand for, and fight to restore their dominion over the planet.

In short, they are also a set of very-highly advanced beings who like to meddle in the affairs of us ants in the ant farm. Please see also the "Book of Ebon Bindings", which has a lot more by Phil on this subject. I mean, I could write a very long essay on the subject; it's something we fought against for a decade. There's also another Big Secret Of Tekumel (pat. pend.) with them as well.

Gronan of Simmerya

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #472 on: July 26, 2015, 02:26:31 pm »
Quote from: chirine ba kal;844414
I am allied with their ancient foes, who wear interesting jewelry.


"beams, rods, cones, stilettos, icepicks, corkscrews, knives, forks, and spoons of energy raved against the screens of the Dentless."
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

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TAFMSV

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #473 on: July 26, 2015, 03:27:24 pm »
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844515
"beams, rods, cones, stilettos, icepicks, corkscrews, knives, forks, and spoons of energy raved against the screens of the Dentless."


Oh, no way!!  Wow!

That potentially speaks volumes.  Is there any substantial bridge between that and the deep history of the planet, or is it strictly alternate reality?

I suppose it's unlikely, considering the ethnicity of "Civilization" compared to Barker's description of Earth.  Maybe it's all ancient history...

AsenRG

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #474 on: July 26, 2015, 05:27:26 pm »
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844515
"beams, rods, cones, stilettos, icepicks, corkscrews, knives, forks, and spoons of energy raved against the screens of the Dentless."


Quote from: TAFMSV;844527
Oh, no way!!  Wow!

That potentially speaks volumes.  Is there any substantial bridge between that and the deep history of the planet, or is it strictly alternate reality?

I suppose it's unlikely, considering the ethnicity of "Civilization" compared to Barker's description of Earth.  Maybe it's all ancient history...


I suspect that's simply some reference that's not familiar to me.
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Bren

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Questioning chirine ba kal
« Reply #475 on: July 26, 2015, 06:05:19 pm »
Quote from: AsenRG;844536
I suspect that's simply some reference that's not familiar to me.
Unless I miss my guess, he's referring to the Dauntless a space dreadnaught from the E.E. "Doc" Smith Lensman space opera series from around the 1930s while satirizing Smith's sometimes overblown descriptions of the various ray projectors used for space battles.

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Planet Algol

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« Reply #476 on: July 26, 2015, 06:11:57 pm »
That's what I thought that jewelry reference was to!

Looks like I'm gonna read the lensmen series to get to the bottom of the silver suits.
Yeah, but who gives a fuck? You? Jibba?

Well congrats. No one else gives a shit, so your arguments are a waste of breath.

TAFMSV

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« Reply #477 on: July 26, 2015, 06:41:04 pm »
Yeah.  I'm not about to start thinking of Tekumel as a Lensman spin-off, or anything like that, but if there was a shared "Doc" Smith fantasy tech vibe informing the group's ideas about the ancients or extraplanar business, it helps my understanding.

Gronan of Simmerya

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« Reply #478 on: July 26, 2015, 07:03:12 pm »
Quote from: AsenRG;844536
I suspect that's simply some reference that's not familiar to me.


* sob *




  Gosh, if only people had computing machines available, and somebody connected them into some sort of vast world wide computer web... you could goggle at things on this web to find out about them...
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

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chirine ba kal

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« Reply #479 on: July 26, 2015, 07:59:21 pm »
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844515
"beams, rods, cones, stilettos, icepicks, corkscrews, knives, forks, and spoons of energy raved against the screens of the Dentless."


"Ah! You are an educated person!" - Klingon officer, "How Much for Just The Planet", by John M. Ford

:)

Three of us 'got it', that night; Ken Fletcher, Kathy Marshall, and Yours Truly; you and Jean had not been able to be there, that session, and I think Phil mourned not being able to see the look on your face.

He loved his 'in-jokes', and lovingly prepared them over literally years to spring on people. This was, in my biased opinion, one of the very best ever!