So, by way of offering context I'm such a grognard that I wasn't even aware such a thing as the OSR existed until 2016.  I started playing B/X & AD&D in 1981-82 and also played a fair degree of MERP and some Cthulhu through the 90s.  I had picked up some 2e stuff, but mostly just modules and monster books.  After a brief flirtation with Legend of the 5 Rings, I then grabbed Hackmaster 4e and bolted that onto to my AD&D game.  Next I picked up Warhammer 2e and played that for a year or so before going back to my old B/X and AD&D, alternating between the two.  After I moved away from my old group in 2012, I didn't game much until I checked out Pathfinder and 5e around 2015, quickly rejecting them.

Then, in late 2016 I stumbled upon Castles & Crusades.  I bought a ton of it and through their forums I learned about the OSR.  So a few months later I grabbed Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea.  Then I backed the Advanced Labyrinth Lord KS.  I had high hopes for that and the mechanics are of course fine, but the cheap quality, poor organization, and mediocre art left a lot to be desired.  I also checked out OSRIC, which I find to be far inferior to the original game itself in its presentation.  I laid off OSE for awhile, but then got a copy as a gift.  I like the digest-sizing and presentation so I later backed the Advanced supplement, which I also enjoy because I actually like the more streamlined rules and the merging of race and class.  But after a campaign of over a year, it just got a bit too predictable with the more limited spell options and stuff.  In the meantime I grabbed Swords & Wizardry and used that for a few games.  I like it a lot, especially the great monster books, but my main players still prefer OSE.  It still being pandemic season, I haven't been able to run anything at our FLGS.  And I really don't like virtual gaming at all.

So this led me to DCC, which I had long resisted.  I like a lot of things about DCC but I've found it a bit clunky at the table with the aforementioned players.  So we've bolted a few of the DCC mechanics onto our OSE game such as the criticals, spell mishaps & corruption, clerical healing by channeling divine power, etc.  And it's been pretty good, but I'm still not quite satisfied.  In particular, I have an idea for a campaign down the line that would involve a world war, with domains, mass combat, and some kind of heinous entity trying to take over. 

So that inspired me to order the Adventurer Conqueror King System.  It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm thinking it might finally give me what I'm looking for.  The basic B/X engine with a few more options, variant spells and casting, more diverse racial classes, and the mass combat and domain rules I'm looking for.  Sure, I could just use my old Rules Compendium.  But the idea of trying something a bit different is appealing.  And I figure at worst I can bolt aspects of it onto my current OSE Advanced/DCC game. 

Incidentally, one thing I've learned through all this is that I can pretty much tell if a game is for me simply by checking out the character sheet.  Nothing over two pages so far as I'm concerned.  I need speedy access at the table, not a bunch of shuffling, especially since we generally run at least 2 characters each at a time.  And I still prefer my 6 classic ability scores in the classic order.  And while I love the idea of a single saving throw, there's something cool about seeing 5 categories (and nothing to do with reflex, willpower, or fortitude).

So just curious as to if others have a particular OSR game/system that they strongly prefer over the rest and why?  Or are you just like me and you're constantly tweaking different systems into your own heady homebrew? 

I'm not sure if they're even considerd OSR, but I quite like Shadow of the Demon Lord (for playing D&D-like games without using D&D rules) and Against the Darkmaster (for Rolemaster/MERP-like gaming). Beyond these, I avoid most anything that is mechanically based on old versions of D&D, and I'm not a fan of Traveller-based OSR stuff either.

Yeah, I know those games.  In fact, I just sold my copy of Against the Darkmaster as I still prefer MERP to it and my group didn't want to play it.  I also have Shadow of the Demon Lord, but haven't played it.  I like the tone and the base rules are simple enough.  Not so sure about all the conditions and fiddly abilities tied to the various paths.  But I'm considering running at least one campaign with it.

I system hopped across the OSR for a while before really settling into OD&D. I was a sans supplement snob for a while but have recently grown to embrace the additions. From a GM perspective, it is the only version of TSR/WotC D&D I enjoy running.

My guess is you'll like ACKS a lot. LotFP is also great. Both games have distinct styles. For Sci-Fiction/Fantasy, Star Adventurer would be my go to, with Suldokar's Wake on my someday list if I can somehow wrap my head around it.

I was like the OP for many years, always searching for the perfect system.

Since I got on the meds, I no longer worry about it. 

Quote from: Persimmon on October 01, 2021, 09:46:44 PM
So just curious as to if others have a particular OSR game/system that they strongly prefer over the rest and why?  Or are you just like me and you're constantly tweaking different systems into your own heady homebrew?

Depends on what you're looking for.

ACKS is great for domain play.
BFRPG is a great take on B/X, separating race from class, if you like that.
DCC RPG is just awesome, with lots and lots of cool tables and randomness.
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not exactly OSR, but is lean and well written, great for gritty/gory games.

I had a similar issue (I enjoy bits and pieces from various games, including B/X, DCC and even some 3e and 5e), so I wrote my own, Dark Fantasy Basic. If you're looking for a lean system, might be worth checking out.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/229046/Dark-Fantasy-Basic--Players-Guide

But, most importantly: what are you looking for?

- Everyone has skills, or only thieves?
- Race separated from class?
- Chaotic or vancian magic?
- Is tone (dark, whimsical, etc.) important?
- Do you want some ray guns and aliens to go with that?

There are so many games that you can pretty much find everything you're looking for - even if you have to build with spare parts.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on October 02, 2021, 08:15:46 AM
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not exactly OSR, but is lean and well written, great for gritty/gory games.

Why is it not exactly OSR? Where is the line drawn? Who gets to draw that line?

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 02, 2021, 10:47:32 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on October 02, 2021, 08:15:46 AM
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not exactly OSR, but is lean and well written, great for gritty/gory games.

Why is it not exactly OSR? Where is the line drawn? Who gets to draw that line?

Good call. +1.

Eric, please, defend your clearly subjective statement about a topic we all know is also subjective and has been debated into the ground over 100,000 times this year alone.

After that, please tumble blindly into a bad faith conversation about where you are drawing the lines around your opinion. Our hope is to relentlessly pick it apart until it scabs at least three times and then scars.

And if you have not somehow already checkmated yourself with this impossible line of questioning, please also tell us who gets to draw the official line. Bonus points if you say yourself, somebody with the last name Gygax, or Jordan Peterson.

LOL, wtf Happy You went in at like an eight on that one!

I'll add my vote for Dark Fantasy Basic

Also has anyone sugested Dark Dungeons, Dark Dungeons X or anything from Gurbintroll Games?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/9745/Gurbintroll-Games

Quote from: FingerRod on October 02, 2021, 11:54:37 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 02, 2021, 10:47:32 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on October 02, 2021, 08:15:46 AM
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not exactly OSR, but is lean and well written, great for gritty/gory games.

Why is it not exactly OSR? Where is the line drawn? Who gets to draw that line?

Good call. +1.

Eric, please, defend your clearly subjective statement about a topic we all know is also subjective and has been debated into the ground over 100,000 times this year alone.

After that, please tumble blindly into a bad faith conversation about where you are drawing the lines around your opinion. Our hope is to relentlessly pick it apart until it scabs at least three times and then scars.

And if you have not somehow already checkmated yourself with this impossible line of questioning, please also tell us who gets to draw the official line. Bonus points if you say yourself, somebody with the last name Gygax, or Jordan Peterson.

LOL, wtf Happy You went in at like an eight on that one!

LOL, well, I can't quite write an essay on that now, but I guess we could ask Rob Schwalb, since he didn't decide to call his game OSR (unlike DCC, ACKS, or DFB, also mentioned in this thread).

But I'm only going with DTRPG here, of course you can define "old school" as you wish. SotDL has many OSR elements and if you think that it is crypto-OSR, that's fine by me.

(It is an amazing game, BTW; I am currently running a campaign and I usually only run OSR or 5eish stuff).

EDIT: also, didn't mean to disagree with your previous post about SotDL/Against the Darkmaster, it was just an observation.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 02, 2021, 12:14:21 PM
I'll add my vote for Dark Fantasy Basic

Also has anyone sugested Dark Dungeons, Dark Dungeons X or anything from Gurbintroll Games?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/9745/Gurbintroll-Games

Thanks! DD is also a GREAT pick... what's not to love a game largely inspired by the Rules Cyclopedia - which was apparently voted in another thread in to be the best RPG book ever!

So I did get my ACKS books today and I'm liking them overall.  As I suspected, I will likely just bolt stuff I like onto my existing OSE game, which also includes lots of DCC elements.  Together these three give me the streamlined diversity I'm looking for, if that makes any sense.  In particular I like their tweak to the classic spellcasting limits, the mortal wound and resurrection rules, the extra character classes, especially the racial classes, and the simple cleave rule.  So now I have to update my OSE house rules document

I've only just got into OSR myself but so far Lamentations of the Flame Princess is king of the hill for me. Some people turn their noses up at the "edgy" art but I thought the art in the rulebook was beautiful. Most importantly it's not a straight retro clone because it does make some good changes. Such as only using ascending AC, making the Thief not be shit by upping the usability and variety of skills they get and clarifying in plain english exactly what the fuck hit dice are right there in the rule book instead of making you buy the DM guide to find that out.

I'm going to try Operation White Box soon. I've had this cool idea of using that and LotFP's Veins of the Earth for a WW2 themed horror campaign.

I think in general if you're going down the B/X route you want stuff that's fairly simple rules wise but can still offer depth when needed. And the beauty of the stuff the OSR makes is you don't need to shackle yourself to one book. Use what you like from whatever other B/X books to create your own dream B/X unicorn.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on October 02, 2021, 08:15:46 AM

Quote from: Persimmon on October 01, 2021, 09:46:44 PM
So just curious as to if others have a particular OSR game/system that they strongly prefer over the rest and why?  Or are you just like me and you're constantly tweaking different systems into your own heady homebrew?

Depends on what you're looking for.

ACKS is great for domain play.
BFRPG is a great take on B/X, separating race from class, if you like that.
DCC RPG is just awesome, with lots and lots of cool tables and randomness.
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not exactly OSR, but is lean and well written, great for gritty/gory games.

I had a similar issue (I enjoy bits and pieces from various games, including B/X, DCC and even some 3e and 5e), so I wrote my own, Dark Fantasy Basic. If you're looking for a lean system, might be worth checking out.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/229046/Dark-Fantasy-Basic--Players-Guide

But, most importantly: what are you looking for?

- Everyone has skills, or only thieves?
- Race separated from class?
- Chaotic or vancian magic?
- Is tone (dark, whimsical, etc.) important?
- Do you want some ray guns and aliens to go with that?

There are so many games that you can pretty much find everything you're looking for - even if you have to build with spare parts.

Quote from: FingerRod on October 02, 2021, 11:54:37 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 02, 2021, 10:47:32 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on October 02, 2021, 08:15:46 AM
Shadow of the Demon Lord is not exactly OSR, but is lean and well written, great for gritty/gory games.

Why is it not exactly OSR? Where is the line drawn? Who gets to draw that line?

Good call. +1.

Eric, please, defend your clearly subjective statement about a topic we all know is also subjective and has been debated into the ground over 100,000 times this year alone.

After that, please tumble blindly into a bad faith conversation about where you are drawing the lines around your opinion. Our hope is to relentlessly pick it apart until it scabs at least three times and then scars.

And if you have not somehow already checkmated yourself with this impossible line of questioning, please also tell us who gets to draw the official line. Bonus points if you say yourself, somebody with the last name Gygax, or Jordan Peterson.

LOL, wtf Happy You went in at like an eight on that one!

My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong.) has been that the OSR is not any one set of rules. It's not just DnD. It's a mentality more than rigid adherence to one true way. If you have the old school mentality your game is OSR.

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 03, 2021, 11:44:08 AM
My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong.) has been that the OSR is not any one set of rules. It's not just DnD. It's a mentality more than rigid adherence to one true way. If you have the old school mentality your game is OSR.

OSR is a lot of things, but it's really more of a movement than anything. A very loose movement with unclear boundaries that have changed as the number of people who identify with the movement has grown.

You can tighten up DCC by printing out tables for the players. Back when my DCC game was FtF, I kept a folder for each PC, containing its character sheet and any associated tables from the rules.

My 2 cents is just to make your own amalgamation of your favourite rules that best fit your game setting thematically since that what OSR writers do anyways and we are all part of the same hobby.

For example if your game is deadly and brutal add some crit tables and don't allow re-rolls, if caving is important then add light and encumbrance rules ala Veins of the Earth etc. The rules for fantastic creatures (dwarves, elves and hobbits) came out of the desire to act out Lord of the Rings battles in Chainmail and were added in and used whenever those fantasy figurines were used. It seems that toolboxing and ad-hoc-ing was always at the heart of the hobby.

I usually just start with the basic OD&D framework of exp/level/hd controlling attack matrix/bonus and save matrix/bonus progression to incentivise open-ended sandbox style exploration. This dynamic is then used to hang other stuff onto it like modifiers, specials, flavour stuff like backgrounds etc that fit with the game's world. I find Delving Deeper and SW:WhiteBox the most useful in this regard, being defined enough to provide a framework, but loose enough to be custom fit into the setting without much work.

Of course I support my favourite creators by buying their stuff, but I do so more to commend and aid their efforts, rather than implementing their mechanics or settings verbatim.