Quote from: B.T.;336350Stage 1: 4e is announced.  Critics grumble about WotC's business practices.  "They're going to fix 3e!"

Stage 2: Previews released.  Critics complain about what they see.  "You can't judge the game based on the preview!  You have to read the actual book to decide."

Stage 3: 4e released.  Critics review the book and decide it's crap.  "You can't judge the game without playing it!  4e reads poorly but plays great!"

Stage 4: 4e splatbook cycle in full bloom.  Critics play the game and declare it to be a failure.  "You're not playing the game right!  I've never had any problems in my game!"

Stage 5: 5e is announced.  "They're going to fix 4e!"

Show me on this teddy bear where 4e touched you.

Quote from: Seanchai;336317Yeah. I'm saying, "Please, you don't actually think that counts as actual experience with the game, do you?" I played more 4e in my first session, which was half chargen, than you have.

And, again, when others claimed you had to play the game to discuss it, you thought it was bullshit, right?

I played in a 4E campaign, taking the PCs from levels 1 to 5, then DMed the same group in a different campaign from levels 1 to 3.

My opinion is well-informed and I agree with Benoist, so the inexperience argument is obviously invalid.  To a point, at least.

Quote from: Benoist;336331When talking about the differences between the two, and to which extent conversion from one to the other might or might not be an issue, the distinction actually matters.

True. But I also have the conversion guide.

Seanchai

Quote from: Benoist;336340I'm saying that, when discussing the topic of conversions from 3.5 to Pathfinder RPG, knowledge of both 3.5 AND Pathfinder RPG (or lack thereof) is relevant.

Which Paizo has. They put together a conversion booklet to help people convert characters from one system to another. Unless you're suggesting that a) they don't know what conversion needs to take place or b) they just threw in steps for shit and giggles or to fuck with their fan base, then I'm guessing Paizo's booklet is pretty authoritative.

So I've got 3.5 materials, plenty of experience with that system, and the Pathfinder conversion guide. I'm certainly not a Pathfinder guru, but I can damn well form an educated opinion...

Quote from: Benoist;336340...this point is actually part of the point of contention between Seanchai and others on this thread, where he pretends that it's a lot of trouble to convert from 3.5 to Pathfinder RPG...

First and foremost, I'm not pretending anything. I'm not sure how one would go about pretending such things. Second, I'm not sure that disagreeing that 3.5 and Pathfinder are "highly compatible" and "trivial" is the same as "it's a lot of trouble to convert 3.5 to Pathfinder."

Also, no one's shifting any goal posts regarding 4e. Just how much experience with a game's system do you think a person can get by playing a game on a message board for a couple of months?

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;336532Which Paizo has. They put together a conversion booklet to help people convert characters from one system to another. Unless you're suggesting that a) they don't know what conversion needs to take place or b) they just threw in steps for shit and giggles or to fuck with their fan base, then I'm guessing Paizo's booklet is pretty authoritative.

So I've got 3.5 materials, plenty of experience with that system, and the Pathfinder conversion guide. I'm certainly not a Pathfinder guru, but I can damn well form an educated opinion...



First and foremost, I'm not pretending anything. I'm not sure how one would go about pretending such things. Second, I'm not sure that disagreeing that 3.5 and Pathfinder are "highly compatible" and "trivial" is the same as "it's a lot of trouble to convert 3.5 to Pathfinder."

Also, no one's shifting any goal posts regarding 4e. Just how much experience with a game's system do you think a person can get by playing a game on a message board for a couple of months?

Seanchai

The Conversion Guide is meant to be as exacting as possible.  It will list all the little minor differences in an effort to be precise and thorough.  But if you're able and willing to handwave minor differences (+ or - a point here and there) many of those differences disappear.Does it REALLY matter if monster X should have 2 more skill points because Move Silently and Hide were combined?  No.  In fact, if you're using a 3.x monster that still has separate scores for each skill, either use those skills depending upon which the monster is trying to do, or just use the higher of the 2 for the combined Sneak skill score and forget about the few unused skill points from the other skill.  Simple and easy to do in practice, but a conversion guide will still list which skills got combined, how to convert it over, have you spend the extra skill points, etc, when none of that is necessary in actual play.  THAT is the difference between saying "But the full conversion guide says you need to do all these steps, so it's not very compatible" and "No, you can ignore all of that when you play, either use the skills as written or just the higher of the 2, and forget about all the steps."

In other words, in actual play, Pathfinder is extremely compatible with 3.x, and really only requires figuring CMB/CMD for creatures (and maybe boosting their HP average a bit).  If you insist on figuring and converting every single little thing, though, yeah, it may take some work.  But in play, very few are going to do that, because there's no need.  The basics are all the same, and that's what matters.

Because of events this past weekend I'm pretty pissed off and at 4th edition D&D. Hell I'm considering seriously selling my corebooks to HALF-PRICE Books.

 Pathfinder is looking pretty good to me right now.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;336640Because of events this past weekend I'm pretty pissed off and at 4th edition D&D. Hell I'm considering seriously selling my corebooks to HALF-PRICE Books.

 Pathfinder is looking pretty good to me right now.


- Ed C.

what events?

Another option is to take a hiatus away from gaming.

Quote from: ggroy;336650Another option is to take a hiatus away from gaming.

No, no. Burning his 4e books is the best solution. The flames will appease 4e haters, and WotC will enjoy the extra income when he repurchases them.

Quote from: Gordon Horne;336652No, no. Burning his 4e books is the best solution. The flames will appease 4e haters, and WotC will enjoy the extra income when he repurchases them.

Burned in a similar ritualistic style as Jimi Hendrix burning and smashing up his guitars on stage.

Quote from: ggroy;336654Burned in a similar ritualistic style as Jimi Hendrix burning and smashing up his guitars on stage.

NO...

What piddling minimal dollars HALF-PRICE gives me for them may possibly pay for more six sided dice that I can use with GURPS, or a decent Sci-Fi DVD, or a package of condoms, or a really good music CD, or pay for two tickets to a movie - all of which would be much more fun/useful than the recent game sessions of D&D 4/e that I recently played in.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;336656NO...

What piddling minimal dollars HALF-PRICE gives me for them may possibly pay for more six sided dice that I can use with GURPS, or a decent Sci-Fi DVD, or a package of condoms, or a really good music CD, or pay for two tickets to a movie - all of which would be much more fun/useful than the recent game sessions of D&D 4/e that I recently played in.

Selling his role-playing books to buy condoms. Lil' Koltar is growing up so fast.

Quote from: Gordon Horne;336657Selling his role-playing books to buy condoms. Lil' Koltar is growing up so fast.

Paradise City

Quote from: Gordon Horne;336657Selling his role-playing books to buy condoms. Lil' Koltar is growing up so fast.

Wait a minute...you've only got 42 posts.

How in the heck do you even know the backstory/meme to do that joke?


- Ed

Quote from: Koltar;336663Wait a minute...you've only got 42 posts.

How in the heck do you even know the backstory/meme to do that joke?

It writes itself.

Besides, 42 is the answer to life, the universe, and everything.