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Author Topic: Project Black Flag Playtests  (Read 3352 times)

Chris24601

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2023, 07:33:01 PM »
Between Paizo’s inevitably woke-leaning revisions, BFRPG bending leftwards and Kobold Press there’s the prospect that all of the major non-OGL SRD’s are going be on the wokish side.
How is Matt Finch? And there's also Free League - they're Swedish, and if they were seriously woke you would expect them to have made it obvious by now.
No clue on the players in writing up the ORC... I'm referring to the likely sources of new SRDs for third parties to work with.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2023, 09:35:51 PM »
They are 2 years too late for me.  If it works out, gets good reviews, and KP doesn't dip deeper into the woke pool, I might check it out on a 2nd printing.

Spinachcat

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2023, 12:23:18 AM »
The interesting thing is/will be to see what WotC does about it, since it's derived from 5e, it hasn't been published yet therefore it falls outside of the authorization of the OGL1.0a. Will they go after Kobold Press for this or not?

My bet is WotC goes after anyone making 5e content, but not TSR-era D&D content. Unsure about 3e-era content, but I'd lean toward no.

Of course, that depends on whether WotC's own lawyers believe they have the rights to nuke the OGL 1.0 or if they're scrambling now that their legal arguments might not be sound before a federal judge or SCOTUS...especially since the OGL kerfluffle has sounded alarms across other open license commmunities with FAR bigger dollars. 

My gut says WotC wants to consolidate 5e's audience and funnel them into 6e without distraction since it's probable that 6e is really just 5.5e.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2023, 12:59:13 AM »
The interesting thing is/will be to see what WotC does about it, since it's derived from 5e, it hasn't been published yet therefore it falls outside of the authorization of the OGL1.0a. Will they go after Kobold Press for this or not?

My bet is WotC goes after anyone making 5e content, but not TSR-era D&D content. Unsure about 3e-era content, but I'd lean toward no.

Of course, that depends on whether WotC's own lawyers believe they have the rights to nuke the OGL 1.0 or if they're scrambling now that their legal arguments might not be sound before a federal judge or SCOTUS...especially since the OGL kerfluffle has sounded alarms across other open license commmunities with FAR bigger dollars. 

My gut says WotC wants to consolidate 5e's audience and funnel them into 6e without distraction since it's probable that 6e is really just 5.5e.

We'll have to wait and see, I think they are a bunch of greedy bastards and will try to nuke anyone they think they can, smaller fish is better from a certain PoV, they will fold for lack of funds to fight.

We'll see when the first law suit drops if the EFF or other Open Source Orgs. jump into the fray. It IS in their best interests to do so because if not then someone might just jump and say their code is no longer Open and fuck the ecosystem, but we'll have to wait for the other shoe to drop.
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migo

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2023, 04:46:47 AM »
Between Paizo’s inevitably woke-leaning revisions, BFRPG bending leftwards and Kobold Press there’s the prospect that all of the major non-OGL SRD’s are going be on the wokish side.
How is Matt Finch? And there's also Free League - they're Swedish, and if they were seriously woke you would expect them to have made it obvious by now.
No clue on the players in writing up the ORC... I'm referring to the likely sources of new SRDs for third parties to work with.

Matt Finch is Swords & Wizardry. As far as the OSR goes, S&W is a big player.

Also, as long as Alexander Macris is working with ORC, ACKS is at least a moderate player and would also serve as a good base SRD.


Rhymer88

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2023, 06:05:46 AM »
At the end of the day, it sounds like 5E with the serial numbers filed off, so No.

Something like that already existed: The French rpg  Héros & Dragons. You can find the original crowd-funder here: https://www.gameontabletop.com/cf30/heros-dragons-le-jeu-de-role.html
The SRD to this game still exists. I am no expert on 5e, but the rules seem to be almost identical, except for some additions such as three new races:
https://heros-et-dragons.tk/
Due to disputes with WOTC, the game had to cease publication in February 2021: https://black-book-editions.fr/news-3187.html
I had to laugh about one person's comment on that page. It was made in June 2021, but is even more true today: "WOTC vous etes vraiment des crottes de troll...Comme si ils ne gagnaient pas assé d'argent. Les politiques commerciales sont reelement sans pitié... Personnellement, je ne suis pas près d'acheter un de leur produit maintenant, ils n'auront plus une pièce d'or de ma part.."

I hope that the setting book (Le cinq royaumes) and the locations book (Batisses clés en main) will appear someday in a system-agnostic version.

3catcircus

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2023, 11:50:11 AM »
The interesting thing is/will be to see what WotC does about it, since it's derived from 5e, it hasn't been published yet therefore it falls outside of the authorization of the OGL1.0a. Will they go after Kobold Press for this or not?

My bet is WotC goes after anyone making 5e content, but not TSR-era D&D content. Unsure about 3e-era content, but I'd lean toward no.

Of course, that depends on whether WotC's own lawyers believe they have the rights to nuke the OGL 1.0 or if they're scrambling now that their legal arguments might not be sound before a federal judge or SCOTUS...especially since the OGL kerfluffle has sounded alarms across other open license commmunities with FAR bigger dollars. 

My gut says WotC wants to consolidate 5e's audience and funnel them into 6e without distraction since it's probable that 6e is really just 5.5e.

You won't get all of the existing user base, but there needs to be a concerted effort to just stop playing and buying 5e content.   That's the only thing that kills WotC as the arbiter of D&D - you have to make it so that their DnDB subscriptions stay cancelled and they continue bleeding cash trying to get whatever fucked-up "one electronic walled garden to rule them all" OneD&D implemented.

Chris24601

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2023, 12:28:32 PM »
I suspect their movie inevitably bombing (which has nothing to do with the OGL mess; it has “failure” written all over it for entirely separate reasons) will have the biggest impact on Hasbro’s plans.

The surest means of killing the OneD&D beast and the planned lawfare against anyone getting close to their IP going forward is to put a stake through Hasbro’s dreams of D&D as a lifestyle brand. The entire ttrpg industry is chump change compared to what they’re hoping to turn D&D into, so if the movie bombs resulting in Chris Pine and crew action figures moldering on retail shelves the way Rey and Finn ones do and all the branded tee shirts end up on clearance racks and it ends up streaming to poor numbers on Paramount+ then Hasbro’s shareholders are going to realize the “D&D is undermonetized” pitch is actually a load of crap and wasting money on trying to monopolize such a niche market isn’t a good investment.

Short version; the harder Hasbro’s lifestyle brand plan fails, the closer your system’s concept stacks can get to D&D’s without triggering the lawfare.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2023, 12:35:34 PM »
I suspect their movie inevitably bombing (which has nothing to do with the OGL mess; it has “failure” written all over it for entirely separate reasons) will have the biggest impact on Hasbro’s plans.

The surest means of killing the OneD&D beast and the planned lawfare against anyone getting close to their IP going forward is to put a stake through Hasbro’s dreams of D&D as a lifestyle brand. The entire ttrpg industry is chump change compared to what they’re hoping to turn D&D into, so if the movie bombs resulting in Chris Pine and crew action figures moldering on retail shelves the way Rey and Finn ones do and all the branded tee shirts end up on clearance racks and it ends up streaming to poor numbers on Paramount+ then Hasbro’s shareholders are going to realize the “D&D is undermonetized” pitch is actually a load of crap and wasting money on trying to monopolize such a niche market isn’t a good investment.

Short version; the harder Hasbro’s lifestyle brand plan fails, the closer your system’s concept stacks can get to D&D’s without triggering the lawfare.

I'll ask again: What is that?
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rkhigdon

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2023, 01:21:31 PM »
I'll ask again: What is that?

I believe Matt Finch talks about this concept in his first OGL video.  If I understand correctly, it's the concept that certain blocks of content in a particular order may be enough for someone claiming copyright or license infringement to mount a successful case.  In his example, he mentions changing the names of OGL spells or adding/removing spells in order to ensure that something like a spell list is not exactly duplicated in supposedly de-OGLified materials (thus opening themselves to legal challenge).

GeekyBugle

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2023, 01:27:23 PM »
I'll ask again: What is that?

I believe Matt Finch talks about this concept in his first OGL video.  If I understand correctly, it's the concept that certain blocks of content in a particular order may be enough for someone claiming copyright or license infringement to mount a successful case.  In his example, he mentions changing the names of OGL spells or adding/removing spells in order to ensure that something like a spell list is not exactly duplicated in supposedly de-OGLified materials (thus opening themselves to legal challenge).


First of all thanks, he hasn't bothered to answer the 3-4 times I asked.

So points of coincidence/simmilarity?

As in the more alike X is to Y the more risk?

We've been talking about that without using an obscure term: "It's not enough to change the name, you need to change the description/art/mechanics to make it truly unique."
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

rkhigdon

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2023, 01:33:20 PM »
First of all thanks, he hasn't bothered to answer the 3-4 times I asked.

So points of coincidence/simmilarity?

As in the more alike X is to Y the more risk?

We've been talking about that without using an obscure term: "It's not enough to change the name, you need to change the description/art/mechanics to make it truly unique."

Matt is of the opinion that he doesn't necessarily need to change the names, he just needs to break up those points of similarity.  In fact, I believe they're going to keep the original names in parenthesis.  This likely works for S&W because they had basically weened out much of the SRD content throughout the lifetime of the product, so breaking up those legacy items is relatively short work.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2023, 01:36:21 PM »
First of all thanks, he hasn't bothered to answer the 3-4 times I asked.

So points of coincidence/simmilarity?

As in the more alike X is to Y the more risk?

We've been talking about that without using an obscure term: "It's not enough to change the name, you need to change the description/art/mechanics to make it truly unique."

Matt is of the opinion that he doesn't necessarily need to change the names, he just needs to break up those points of similarity.  In fact, I believe they're going to keep the original names in parenthesis.  This likely works for S&W because they had basically weened out much of the SRD content throughout the lifetime of the product, so breaking up those legacy items is relatively short work.

I hope he's right, I love his game and also the White Box FMAG and those based on it.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2023, 01:36:51 PM »
So points of coincidence/simmilarity?

As in the more alike X is to Y the more risk?

We've been talking about that without using an obscure term: "It's not enough to change the name, you need to change the description/art/mechanics to make it truly unique."

That's a little too strict.  It's more that if you keep X, you might want to change Y, or vice versa.  The whole thing adds up.  If the thing has A, B, C, D, E, F, G, then changing the name/description probably isn't enough (depending on what all those items are), but changing the name of A, how B works, dropping E out entirely in favor of H, and using your own words--you are well on your way, maybe there already.

Jaeger

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Re: Project Black Flag Playtests
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2023, 01:38:50 PM »
The lead designer of project Black Flag:

Quote
Celeste Conowitch, our Senior Game Designer, is the lead on game design for this new fantasy RPG.

Who is She?

Let's go to the horses mouth:
Quote
https://celesteconowitch.com/game-design/

Celeste Conowitch
Game Designer, Performer, Producer

"Celeste is the Producer, Editor, and Dungeon Master of Venture Maidens, a femme-forged D&D actual-play podcast set in the homebrew world of The Planes."

Gotta say, I'm not filled with confidence here...
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