Quote from: jeff37923;664270Dance, monkey! Dance!

I know you are, but what am I?

Quote from: everloss;663980Artwork and Music. I want my game store to feel like a top notch record or comic shop. [...] For me, I would just play punk, metal, and hip hop, mostly local and/or underground.

See, this would turn me off in a pretty big hurry.  Gaming isn't edgy, and shopping for games even less so (comics and records, also not edgy).

My local FLGS plays orchestral soundtracks from fantasy and action movies, which works pretty well.

QuotePromo posters and the like should be regularly rotated, the walls should be covered in badass art, clothes, and the like.

One man's "badass" is another man's "trying too hard and pathetically failing".

QuoteSponsor local non-gaming events. Build partnerships with other local, niche stores. Be active in the community. Here in Cbus, that means opening booths at Comfest and Independence Day festivals, joining the Small Business Beanstalk, discounts for bike riders, joining the Doo Dah Parade, and sponsoring local art and music shows.

If it brings in more customers or counts out of the marketing budget, I suppose it can't hurt, but this sounds like CSR BS to me.  "Leveraging synergies"[1] is what you really need - one FLGS had a poster up by the pay phone in the game room; you got a 10% discount if you ordered pizza from the place up the street.  The pizza joint had a poster advertising the same deal.  End result, both places got more walk-in traffic as people would come into the game store to order cheap pizza.


[1] Which used to mean something real before the Ivy League twats got a hold of it

Quote from: daniel_ream;664332My local FLGS plays orchestral soundtracks from fantasy and action movies, which works pretty well.

Oh dear god... NO!

Quote from: daniel_ream;664332One man's "badass" is another man's "trying too hard and pathetically failing".

Like I said in my post, a store that fit my taste (eg; cool and fun) would keep some people out (fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc), but bring new people in; like high school kids, college kids, and (of dear lord!) women.
I think it's obvious who I want to keep out; people I don't ever want to game with. IE: smelly as shit neckbeards who wear the same TSR Dragon Month promo t-shirt every Saturday for the past 20 years, don't buy anything just hang out at the shop annoying the staff because they have no one to talk to otherwise, who try to impress women by speaking in a lispy english accent because they watched Excaliber for the 50th time the previous night (yet treat the same woman like absolute shit during play and drives her away from gaming forever), and pathetically failing at not only being acceptable members of society in general, but also pathetically failing at promoting the hobby they claim to love, yet seem to attempt to stifle at every turn.

I don't want to game with people like that.

As for my musical choices, as I said, that's my choice. You can play whatever the fuck you want in your store.

Hell, if I could, I'd sell beer inside and have a fenced in patio for smokers to play outside.

Quote from: Koltar;663014Sadly , our owners did not have the funds to participate in 'Free RPG Day' this year.

Are margins really so thin they couldn't afford a single $85 kit - or the $139 "uber-kit" that netted the store all of the stuff in the $85 kit, plus saleable copies of a dice tower, DCC RPG core book, LotFP RPG book and C&C RPG core book?

Not asking out of douchebaggery, but I am truly interested, from the "running the business" perspective of thing.

Participation just seems like a no-brainer to me.  It's a ton of promotional product, some fantastic marketing and a better deal on the saleable product (60% off MSRP) then most stores typically get through their normal distributor channels, and the participation cost seems to be peanuts, unless a store's hanging on by a shoe-string.

Quote from: kythri;664433Are margins really so thin they couldn't afford a single $85 kit - or the $139 "uber-kit" that netted the store all of the stuff in the $85 kit, plus saleable copies of a dice tower, DCC RPG core book, LotFP RPG book and C&C RPG core book?

Not asking out of douchebaggery, but I am truly interested, from the "running the business" perspective of thing.

Okay - you said you're not being a douchebag....I'll believe you on that.

What I type NEXT, is my observations & opinions and not that of store management or the store's owners - Okay?

All those items you mentioned I don't believe generate enough foot traffic to the store.  Most of that fellow Cincinnatian Flyerfan found at two other places locally.  (He shops at our store too and is a really nice guy. LOVE it that his kids are into PATHFINDER) I only heard about those by reading conversations on the internet.

What DOES generate foot traffic to our store is what we normally do on a weekly basis  - the Dungeons & Dragons Encounters  on Wednesday nights and 'Friday Night Magic' every week between 6 and 9pm Friday nights.
Also some weeks there are a few folks that like to check in on what my STAR TREK campaign is doing and if I am using star maps & miniatures that week. Only thing is the TREK RPG game is every other week.

The other attention-grabber or foot traffic magnet is the BATTLETECH Miniatures club that sets up huge scenario battles once a month on our game tables. Folks that browse our store quite often ask when their next game is going to happen at our store becvause they want to watch it or even try to play it.

One 'Promotional Day' that was pretty good for us was the TABLETOP DAY that Wil Wheaton and Felicia Day started this year.
THAT got a lot of interest and people stopping by the store to try things out.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;664449What I type NEXT, is my observations & opinions and not that of store management or the store's owners - Okay?

Understood, and thank you.

It's interesting seeing the participants and seeing the effects.

I'll post my observations of this years Free RPG Day at local shops when I get to work in a bit, I've got to prepare to leave.

Quote from: everloss;664388Like I said in my post, a store that fit my taste (eg; cool and fun) would keep some people out (fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc), but bring new people in; like high school kids, college kids, and (of dear lord!) women.
I think it's obvious who I want to keep out; people I don't ever want to game with. IE: smelly as shit neckbeards who wear the same TSR Dragon Month promo t-shirt every Saturday for the past 20 years, don't buy anything just hang out at the shop annoying the staff because they have no one to talk to otherwise, who try to impress women by speaking in a lispy english accent because they watched Excaliber for the 50th time the previous night (yet treat the same woman like absolute shit during play and drives her away from gaming forever), and pathetically failing at not only being acceptable members of society in general, but also pathetically failing at promoting the hobby they claim to love, yet seem to attempt to stifle at every turn.

I don't want to game with people like that.

I didn't really go to gaming stores when I was a kid.

But if I had regularly come across people like that (ie. fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc...) back in the day, then most likely I would have completely dropped role playing games early on.

In more recent times, I've noticed many of the non-creepy gamers I've known offline over the years, constantly gossip and vent about the local fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc ...  Whenever I asked why they continue to play rpg games with such awful individuals, their reply is either a blank stare or they complain about how the local pool of players is so miniscule that there isn't anybody else available for regular weekly/biweekly game sessions.  It seems like they would rather play rpg games with awful people, than not playing at all.

Quote from: Koltar;664449What DOES generate foot traffic to our store is what we norm,ally do on a weekly basis [...]

What I'm noticing is that all of the things you've mentioned have this in common: they're cool to look at if you're not playing.  This seems kind of obvious - an RPG isn't much to look at unless you're going overboard with the chrome - and I'm wondering if any other store owners have observed this correlation.

Quote from: ggroy;664489I didn't really go to gaming stores when I was a kid.

But if I had regularly come across people like that (ie. fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc...) back in the day, then most likely I would have completely dropped role playing games early on.

In more recent times, I've noticed many of the non-creepy gamers I've known offline over the years, constantly gossip and vent about the local fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc ...  Whenever I asked why they continue to play rpg games with such awful individuals, their reply is either a blank stare or they complain about how the local pool of players is so miniscule that there isn't anybody else available for regular weekly/biweekly game sessions.  It seems like they would rather play rpg games with awful people, than not playing at all.

Part of the problem may be that they are limiting thier pool of local players to only known, established gamers. I would rather spend an evening with cool people who may be new to gaming than a group of catpissmen who are expert players.

Quote from: kythri;664475I'll post my observations of this years Free RPG Day at local shops when I get to work in a bit, I've got to prepare to leave.

So...

In a 100 mile radius of where I live in Oregon, 5 shops were participating.

One in Eugene, a new shop (Funagain Games, backed by funagain.com).  Seems like a great store, been in there twice now.  They're the only brick-and-mortar store that I've witness discounting product on a regular basis (I think about 15% off MSRP, on most stuff).  They bill this as "get the online discount here in the store!"

There's a few other stores in the area - one is primarily a card shop, so I understand why they don't participate.  Another is a great store (Evolution Gaming), and carries a good selection of RPG stuff (including a fair amount of "indy" stuff, which I don't see other places), but their focus seems dedicated primarily to Warhammer (about 60% of the floor space) and boardgames/eurogames (about 25-30% of the floor space).

Their RPG stock seems to have a pretty decent turnover, so I'm surprised the don't participate.

The other shop of consideration in the area (Emerald City Comics) is primarily a comic shop, but they've participated in the past, and when I was there the last time they did (2009), the shop was bustling, a lot of interested folks and a lot of RPG sales that I don't see any other time I'm in (which is saying something, as this shop is in the heart of the University of Oregon campus, and shares a building/main entrance with an enormous (and enormously popular) used bookstore of local fame (Smith Family Bookstore).

I've been surprised the last few years that they haven't been a participant, given the previous success that I've seen, and their campus location.

Corvallis, (the city I work in) has two shops, one participating.  Not at all surprised at that.

The participant (Matt's Cavalcade) is a long-time fixture, a "comic shop" that's been in business for nearly 25 years, but one that's equally supportive of games and collectibles.  They've been a long time participant, and host Pathfinder Society, and always see a big turnout.  They recently opened a small sister-store in Albany, which is mostly a small sales floor and some place space at the front of the warehouse they bought (they do all the major conventions on the west coast, and some in the midwest, and needed storage space for all of that gear, in addition to their huge comics backstock collection).  I believe they were trying to get some PFS stuff setup there, as well.  I deal with Matt's on a regular basis, but don't typically go there for Free RPG Day, as the store is usually slammed (close to campus (Oregon State University) and just a popular store.

The other store (Pegasus Games) is a tiny tiny place that is focused on Warhammer and Magic, and seems to be permanently populated by the owner's clique of friends.  

Unfriendly to outsiders.  They carry some token D&D books, likely so they can maintain their "Wizards Premier" store designation, for whatever benefit that nets them.

Not surprised that they don't participate, since none of the product seems like their market.

Salem has two stores, one participant.  The non-participating store, Wild Things Games, seems to be primarily CCGs - they've got a fair amount of RPG stuff, and used to participate pretty heavily in things like Living Greyhawk, Living Forgotten Realms, the equivalent for Eberron, etc.

That RPG stock, though, doesn't really move - it's all sun-faded due to being next to the big picture windows at the front of the store, and it's blocked off by gaming tables, which typically requires getting obnoxious CCG players to move so you can peruse it (obnoxious because they get pissy about being forced to accomodate a browsing customer, not necessarily because they're CCG players).

The participating store, Borderlands Games, is pretty good.  I hit them up once or twice a month, since i'm in Salem fairly often, but I don't end up buying much, since all they really carry is new product - the only new product I find myself buying anymore is either Pathfinder (subscribed from Paizo) or Kickstarter-based stuff.  They used to have a fantastic used/OOP section in the store, but they clearanced all of that out several years ago, which was great at the time, but has sucked since then, since that was a huge draw for me.  I really only visit out of sentimentality and timekilling.

The Portland area has quite a few stores, but only three participating this year.

Rainy Day Games is a pretty nice place - they bought up a bunch of fixtures from a local Borders closure, so the place looks WAY more upscale than most game stores, what with nice fixtures/decor and consistency of the same.  While I dig the shop, they focus primarily on new product, with no used/OOP stuff to speak of.  As such, given that they're up in Portland, they're not commonly a destination for me.  If I happen to be in the Beaverton/Aloha area, and I'm not in any kind of rush, I'll swing by, but I don't go out of my way.

The last time I was there, they did seem to have a pretty decent variety of RPG stuff, but I don't recall much smaller publisher stuff - maybe a copy of the Dresden Files books?  I hit them up for Free RPG Day a couple years ago, and they were doing pretty well.

Guardian Games is a pretty great store, and if I lived in the area, would probably end up being the one I frequent most -huge selection of pretty much everything gaming, an OK selection of used/OOP, a huge amount of play space, and they apparently have their liquor license to be able to serve beer/wine (though I've never partaken there before).  They're in the warehouse district, so there's no decent parking, you just have to find something on a side street.

I visited them a couple years ago for Free RPG Day, after hitting up Rainy Day Games above, and by the time I got there (about an hour or so after open) quite a bit of their stuff (I think they said they bought 2 or 3 kits?) was gone, and the place was slammed.

Finally, the last participant is Ancient Wonders in Tualatin.  It's the biggest dive store in the area, running out of an old house grandfathered into the zoning and all kinds of upscale development surrounding it.  Play space upstairs, a bit downstairs, and, until the last year or so, a staggeringly phenomenal selection of used/OOP/backstock RPG stuff.  Definitely the place most likely to find weirdos.  It seems that they've pretty much stopped buying up old stuff or collections (or nobody is trying to sell?) because the shelves just get more and more empty every time I visit (about every 2 months).  I've bought a ton of stuff there, but due to the dwindling supply, it's less and less.  

This year, I went to Borderlands in Salem for Free RPG Day, and was there at open - store wasn't horribly packed.  They were advertising a "2 free items only" but not paying attention, so a bunch of mooches who didn't buy anything were taking 6-7 items.  I snagged the Pathfinder module and the DCC module, and bought about $40 worth of stuff, so they gave me one of the Q-Workshop dice.

My brother, who lives in Gresham (suburb of Portland) conned me into helping him tow his muscle car project from Salem to his place in Gresham, so when we were done (about 6 pm that evening), I swung by Ancient Wonders - they were out of all of the Pathfinder, Shadowrun, DCC and LotFP stuff.  Seemed to be decently busy.  They had a copy of the old AD&D 2E Diablo (Diablo II?) box set game that I snagged for $20.

Of the rest of the Portland stores that weren't participating, most of them seem to focus on other games or product (comics, collectibles) primarily, with RPGs being an example of "oh yeah, we sell that too, here's the few books we stock."

Quote from: daniel_ream;664508What I'm noticing is that all of the things you've mentioned have this in common: they're cool to look at if you're not playing.  This seems kind of obvious - an RPG isn't much to look at unless you're going overboard with the chrome - and I'm wondering if any other store owners have observed this correlation.

Mustangs and Messerschmitts always draws a crowd at cons. And it's not all that complicated a game, though more time can be spent painting the model airplanes that actually playing (if you want).

I just don't like the assholes who play it around here.

Quote from: daniel_ream;664508What I'm noticing is that all of the things you've mentioned have this in common: they're cool to look at if you're not playing.  This seems kind of obvious - an RPG isn't much to look at unless you're going overboard with the chrome - and I'm wondering if any other store owners have observed this correlation.

Thats why in 20/20 hindsight WOTC doesn't seem so stupid when they tried to emphasize use of miniatures with 4th edition D&D.

The problem was they made it too damn fiddly and detail-oriented.

Getting back sort of to the opening post  - I never try to 'steer' a browser or customer towards a particular RPG.

HOWEVER, if they ask me certain questions or seem interested in trying out RPGs or D&D - I will tell them what regular customers in our area have been saying.
Also I notice when groups are playing in the store where they get bogged down in the middle of an RPG session. What bits of a role-playing game slow things down is quite noticeable to someone not actually playing but still having to hear everything going on. It may look like I'm straightening the shelves or putting up products in a new arrangement, but my ears are still working fine and they've heard dozens upon dozens of game sessions over the past 6 years. (Its sort of like listening to old radio shows or audio dramas)

So even without actually playing all those D&D and PATHFINDER games - I do have the memory of those adventures in my head. (both good and bad)

All of the above informs the advice I give browsers when they display an interest in Role Playing Games.

And Yes I oftenm use a similiar line to what I said in that earlier post. Some version of the phrase:
 "This is my opinion, not the store's opinion - but this is what I've seen or noticed..."
That sentence is usually finished or followed up with phrases like these : "...with regulars at our store", "...other gamers in the area", "...My co-workers and their RPG groups"

- Ed C.

Quote from: ggroy;664489I didn't really go to gaming stores when I was a kid.

But if I had regularly come across people like that (ie. fatbeards, lawncrappers, catpissmen, decrepit old fogeys, etc...) back in the day, then most likely I would have completely dropped role playing games early on.

My FLGS when I was a kid (9+ years old) was in a city hours away.

The proprietors were this skinny, grizzled, long-haired hippie/biker(?I was 9?) couple and the guy had dragon tattoos up and down his arms. There was also ads for a tattoo shop in the lobby.

I thought it was the coolest fucking thing ever! Even if I was a wee bit 9-year-old intimidated by the tattooed longhair.

In another post I mentioned a game shop - The Last Grenadier, in Burbank - I visited pretty regularly when I was in my teens. It wasn't close to where I lived, which meant I usually got dropped off there and then picked up later in the day, hanging out for four hours? five hours? six hours? usually arranging to meet friends, or sometimes playing pickup games with whoever happened to be hanging around.

Do kids do that anymore?