I'm putting the blame at WotC's feet. They had the perfect magazine and they got greedy and controlling.  Then even that wasn't enough so they killed it.  They are the only company that has the capital to get a new magazine off its feet but they won't because of their retarded new digital initiative (yeah, that's going to do well).  Imagine if WotC started a general industry gaming magazine, say 50-60% of it was WotC stuff and the rest was general gaming.  Who wouldn't buy it?

I agree that magazines are generally on the slide. How about Print On Demand magazine? That would be more tempting to me!

Quote from: walkerpI'm putting the blame at WotC's feet. They had the perfect magazine and they got greedy and controlling.  Then even that wasn't enough so they killed it.  They are the only company that has the capital to get a new magazine off its feet but they won't because of their retarded new digital initiative (yeah, that's going to do well).  Imagine if WotC started a general industry gaming magazine, say 50-60% of it was WotC stuff and the rest was general gaming.  Who wouldn't buy it?

I won't argue too much with this but I think your ratio is off. I think they would be best served with either a full house organ like Dragon was or 1 article or so of other systems.

Bill

Quote from: Rob LangI agree that magazines are generally on the slide. How about Print On Demand magazine? That would be more tempting to me!

This is where I would suggest going but, well, it is way expensive to do something like that if you are going full color, glossy, perfect bound. If you meant B&W, saddle stitch then yeah, this is how I would try it.

Bill

Well, i did mention that way back near the start of the thread, but it sort of got caught in the rush.

Quote from: One Horse TownWell, i did mention that way back near the start of the thread, but it sort of got caught in the rush.

It wasn't lost just glossed over.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltI won't argue too much with this but I think your ratio is off. I think they would be best served with either a full house organ like Dragon was or 1 article or so of other systems.

From a mercenary vendor lock-in strategy (as WotC practices), you are right.  I wasn't thinking of them in my suggestion but of the hobby as a whole.  I think it would benefit them to open up to the rest of the hobby (like the old Dragon) and it would certainly benefit the hobby.

Quote from: HinterWeltIt wasn't lost just glossed over.

Bill

:razz:

Quote from: HinterWeltA lot of the bigger companies view retailers as their customers, not gamers.

It seems to me that they're right...

Quote from: HinterWeltAd revenue is important but it is not a simple case of stepping into the shoes of Dragon.

It can't imagine someone could step into Dragon's shoes. But it seemed to me, based on what I saw in Dragon, that there were some ad money to be found.

Quote from: HinterWeltIf you meant B&W, saddle stitch then yeah, this is how I would try it.

I was thinking color cover, black and white guts.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiIt can't imagine someone could step into Dragon's shoes. But it seemed to me, based on what I saw in Dragon, that there were some ad money to be found.

Seanchai

Right and I think we may be saying the same thing but let's see.

For Dragon, sure. Dragon had the circulation, productions standards, and focus that you got a fair amount of advertisers. Today, a new mag...much more difficult. Made more difficult because of the lack of advertisers as compared with a more mainstream, wider focused mag (like Time or Newsweek). Also, in the end, we are talking about 1 mag...one.

I would also add that I agree with what others have said, that a lot of it is moving away from in-print to online. Pyramid continues right? I am not saying print mags can't happen but that it is really difficult and unlikely.

Bill

Quote from: walkerpFrom a mercenary vendor lock-in strategy (as WotC practices), you are right.  I wasn't thinking of them in my suggestion but of the hobby as a whole.  I think it would benefit them to open up to the rest of the hobby (like the old Dragon) and it would certainly benefit the hobby.

Keeping in mind I have no numbers or info to really know for sure, I still don't see how going to the expense of printing a nice magazine with more than a token nod to their competitors would benefit WOTC.

Quote from: HinterWeltI am not saying print mags can't happen but that it is really difficult and unlikely.

Bill

Ditto.


TGA

Quote from: SigmundKeeping in mind I have no numbers or info to really know for sure, I still don't see how going to the expense of printing a nice magazine with more than a token nod to their competitors would benefit WOTC.

Again, it would mostly be about market share. If they could rope in even more circulation by addressing some out-of-company material, well all the better. Especially if you could drum up the pretense for "Third party properties using our system that you need the core rules for that you must buy from us" angle.

I could see other reasons having to do with broadening the base and focusing on some niches. Same kind of thing KoDT does.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltDragon had the circulation, productions standards, and focus that you got a fair amount of advertisers. Today, a new mag...much more difficult.

Yes.

A couple of things, however. I think the you bundle the cost of proving yourself to advertisers in your start up projections. Keep costs down initially and grow into other formats, if possible. Instead of filling the magazine with full color spreads, aim for more, cheaper ads.

Here's what I'd do if I were going to start up a magazine of the sort we're talking about.

In terms of format, I'd shoot for a 4/4 cover on whatever weight magazines are normally run on. Or, if it was economical, maybe something a little heavier. The guts would be 2/2 on whatever the cheapest white paper I could get.

So I'd have a color cover. I'd see if I couldn't get full page, full color ads for the inside cover and the back cover. If I could, I'd sell multiple issue runs. One the inside back cover, I'd have an ad grid. All three would be in color and would be key locations - I'd charge accordingly.

I'd keep the number of pages down for a few reasons.

First would be shipping weight. I don't know how much fulfilment houses charge to ship, etc., but if the magazine is small enough, I could mail it out in manila envelopes. Not very labor efficient, but...

Second, I'd help keep printing costs down.

Third, with fewer pages, I could concentrate on producing quality content (something which, personally, I feel...er, smaller magazines often lack).

Finally, it would up my ratio of "dead weight" to advertising. If in addition to the color ads, I could sell a few pages of black and white or 2 color ad grids, I'd hopefully be in good shape.

In terms of advertising, I'd look to fill out my 2 color ad grids with industry ads and my full color ads with ads from outside the RPG industry.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiYes.

A couple of things, however. I think the you bundle the cost of proving yourself to advertisers in your start up projections. Keep costs down initially and grow into other formats, if possible. Instead of filling the magazine with full color spreads, aim for more, cheaper ads.

Here's what I'd do if I were going to start up a magazine of the sort we're talking about.

In terms of format, I'd shoot for a 4/4 cover on whatever weight magazines are normally run on. Or, if it was economical, maybe something a little heavier. The guts would be 2/2 on whatever the cheapest white paper I could get.

So I'd have a color cover. I'd see if I couldn't get full page, full color ads for the inside cover and the back cover. If I could, I'd sell multiple issue runs. One the inside back cover, I'd have an ad grid. All three would be in color and would be key locations - I'd charge accordingly.

I'd keep the number of pages down for a few reasons.

First would be shipping weight. I don't know how much fulfilment houses charge to ship, etc., but if the magazine is small enough, I could mail it out in manila envelopes. Not very labor efficient, but...

Second, I'd help keep printing costs down.

Third, with fewer pages, I could concentrate on producing quality content (something which, personally, I feel...er, smaller magazines often lack).

Finally, it would up my ratio of "dead weight" to advertising. If in addition to the color ads, I could sell a few pages of black and white or 2 color ad grids, I'd hopefully be in good shape.

In terms of advertising, I'd look to fill out my 2 color ad grids with industry ads and my full color ads with ads from outside the RPG industry.

Seanchai

So basically, the way we have been discussing through this thread.

I come back to, why would rpg companies advertise in your mag? Why would those outside the industry advertise in your mag?

In the end, I think it is harder than you might think but, yeah, lowering production criteria, lowering costs and getting advertising on board would be the way I would approach it too.

Bill