Legal constraints on the slave trade were light. Earlier restrictions such as the provision in Rome's treaty with Carthage of 348 BC that outlawed the sale of captives from  allied  polities  in  Roman  ports  disappeared  with  Rome's  takeover  of  the  Mediterranean. Although the castration of slaves was outlawed in the late first century AD, the trade in eunuchs was  never  suppressed  by  the  state;  and  later  rules  against  the  long-distance  transfer  of  sold  children  or  the  separation  of  slave  families  may  not  have  had  much  effect  either.

Fiscal  intervention  probably  only  had  a  moderate  impact  on  the  volume  of  trade:  tariff  records  from  Palmyra from AD 137 stipulate customs dues equivalent to not more than 2 or 3 % of the value of teenage slaves, while the tariff recorded in an analogous inscription from Zarai in Numidia (AD 02)  envisions  an  even  lower  rate.  In  Egypt, Roman  authorities  upheld  the  earlier  practice  of  requiring export permissions and export fees (of unknown size) for slaves.

The  relative  prevalence  of  private  sales  versus  transactions  arranged  by  professional  dealers is unknown. In slave markets, slaves were displayed on platforms and could be undressed for  closer  inspection;  new  arrivals  were  marked  with  chalked  feet.  Slaves  wore  placards  (tituli) advertising  their  qualities  around  their  necks  (including  their  origin,  state  of  health,  and  propensity  to  run  away),  or  special  caps  (pillei)  in  those  cases  where  the  seller  would  not  offer  guarantees.

Extant  sales  contracts,  primarily  from  Egypt  with  rare  additions  from  Italy  and  Dacia, testify to the scrupulous observance of formal legal requirements, and give us a rough idea of the age distribution of traded slaves, dominated by individuals in their teens and twenties. Known  slave  prices  are  rare  and  once  again  mostly  available  from  Egyptian  papyrus  records. Sporadic records from Italy, Africa, Dacia and Syria help to flesh out the picture. The only  surviving  systematic  pricing  schedule  –  a  section  of  the  tetrarchic  edict  setting  maximum prices of AD 301 – is late and highly schematic but bears some resemblance to schedules used by nineteenth-century slave dealers  in  the  United  States.

Manumission  tariffs  reported  in  Greek  sanctuaries, above all Delphi, may be only imperfectly related to actual market prices. Overall, it  is  clear  that  base  prices  were  highly  sensitive  to age,  and  that  skill  premiums  could  be  very  considerable,   running   to   high   multiples   of   base rates.   Episodic   mass   enslavement   could   temporarily  depress  price  levels  (Volkmann  1990:118).  Our  evidence  suggests  real  slave  prices  in  the  first  three  centuries  AD  of  the  order  of  about  4  tons  (+/-  50%)  of  wheat  equivalent  for  a  young adult slave of moderate skills. Thus, in terms of food prices and wages, real slave prices in the imperial period appear to have been considerably higher than in classical Athens. The fact that slave   prices   for   the   Republican   period   are   almost   completely   unknown   forestalls   direct   comparison  with  earlier  periods  of  Roman  history. There is reference to a slave trained in medicine being worth more than 25 field or agricultural slaves and for some people the life of a slave appeared better than that of a free man. Ambitious poor people sold themselves into Roman slavery in a concrete realization long-term employment contract that promised, however uncertainly, more advancement than the life of the free poor.


We  are  reduced  to  the  mere  assumption  that  slave prices in Republican Italy ought to have been relatively low during the massive expansion of the regional slave complex. Roman  law  required  dealers  to  disclose  the  ethnic  origin  (natio)  of  slaves:  that  some  groups  were  considered  more  desirable  than  others  hints  at  the  presence  of  racialist  attitudes  within an otherwise indiscriminately voracious regime of slaving. Such prejudices, however, were not normally elaborated beyond generic slurs against entire cultures or narrow recommendations of  groups  thought  suitable  for  specific  tasks,  such  as  the  notion  that  slave  families  from  Epirus  made superb herders.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;985805I assume he'd try to keep the slave hidden away. (He's a member of the Cult of Asmodeus so I'd assume he could use underworld connections to achieve his unsavory goals.)

When I brought up the price he brought up indentured servants as an alternative, which I am not sure is treated differently in terms of legality or not. Or price.

Unless he has a stronghold, the character wasting his time as long as they stick around Neverwinter. There nothing to gain by having a slave. What he should do is scout a place in the wilderness, establish a stronghold, either raid for labor, or buy them from south and bring them up north.

Quote from: estar;985817Unless he has a stronghold, the character wasting his time as long as they stick around Neverwinter. There nothing to gain by having a slave. What he should do is scout a place in the wilderness, establish a stronghold, either raid for labor, or buy them from south and bring them up north.

Hey, if he wants to spend all his gold on it it's no skin off my back. As long as he spends his gold.

How many years would you say slaves or indentured servants are priced at? Or rather, how would you correct my calculation.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;985818How many years would you say slaves or indentured servants are priced at? Or rather, how would you correct my calculation.

Assume a slave in a legal country is 4-6 times the cost of a donkey/horse. Now double that and you have a low end and high end.

Quote from: Spellslinging Sellsword;985823Assume a slave in a legal country is 4-6 times the cost of a donkey/horse. Now double that and you have a low end and high end.

I concur that historically consistent.

ACKS' "secret ratio" is a 3% monthly return on capital investment.  Roughly then, value the monthly output of a given slave, or more simply find the monthly wage to hire them, multiply by 30 and call it good.

Quote from: Spellslinging Sellsword;985823Assume a slave in a legal country is 4-6 times the cost of a donkey/horse. Now double that and you have a low end and high end.

Double for what, it being illegal, or for it being an indentured servant, or something else?

I was looking at possible Lamentations of the Flame Princess refing the past few days, and it places their (untrained labor/menial) value on par with a mule.  Children are half that price.   So, a game source answer to take or ignore.

Quote from: Spellslinging Sellsword;985823Assume a slave in a legal country is 4-6 times the cost of a donkey/horse. Now double that and you have a low end and high end.

I agree that is reasonable as a baseline, but there can be lots of variation depending on supply, demand, and the type of slave. Regarding how that number comes about - remember that for slaves, you have to pay for their room and board, as well as costs associated with keeping them from escaping. That figures significantly into their worth.

I went digging into my Harn stuff and there turns out to be a multi-page article on Slavery in the Byria Module.

1d = 1 silver penny
240d = 1 pound weight

The base wage for a common laborer is about 1d per day, excluding days off this amounts to 24d per month.

The base prices for a slave is 240d or roughly a pound of silver.
This can be modified as follows

Age: Males from 16 to 20 or females from 14 to 18 fetch 20% more.
Strength and Endurance: +20%
Beauty: +20%
For Household slaves Intelligence and Dexterity: +20%
Skilled Slaves
Journeyman level: +20%
Master Level: +40%
Eunuchs are considered more loyal: +20%
Literate: +20%
Disabled: -20% per limitation
History of Violence or Escape: -20%
Recently Captured: -20%.

In D&D 5e Unskilled labor is paid 2sp per day. So a slave is likely worth double so 480 sip or 48 gp.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;985847Double for what, it being illegal, or for it being an indentured servant, or something else?

Doubled is the high end price. Undoubled is the low end price.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;985742One of the Lawful Evil PCs in my 5e game wants to hire help and was looking at getting a slave or indentured servant.

1) Do such things exist in the Forgotten Realms?

2) Are there any RPGs or D&D editions that try to ballpark it?

I tried researching real life Civil War era prices and got something like $800 which converts to roughly $22,000 today, but that doesn't tell me anything about D&D gold.

In AD&D, 2e and BX look at the rules for henchmen and hirelings. This will give you a good base idea of servants for hire.
Basic henchmen were up to the DM to decide. But since a starter level PC could hire them. Probably not to expensive for the low tier handlers.
Expert added mercs and specialists. A human non-combat type was 1gp/month. A heavy footman was 3/month. Bowmen 5/month. Longbowmen 10/month. This was for guard duty. Active work was double or more the base cost depending on the tasks.

1: Yes. I dont recall a price list. Its usually based on the whims of the seller and buyer if theres bidding. Auction style could start low and escalate.

2: see my notes above on BX. Also I believe Tunnels & Trolls had a section on slaves? Also one or two of the Rifts books cover the subject.

Tunnels & Trolls does alright. May as well quote the section in full.

"Slaves have no personal Luck or Charisma and are usually low IQ.  Their Luck may be considered that of their master's, and while a slave my be good looking, he or she will not have the leadership abilities that go with standard CHR.

You may select any number between 3 and 18 for each of a slave's remaining 4 attributes (ST, IQ, CON, DEX).  The slave will cost 10 GP for each attribute point. (For Example, a slave with a ST of 10, IQ of 5, CON of 10, and DEX of 9 will cost you 340 GP).

If you want a slave with visible good looks, you will have to pay for CHR rating at the same scale, 10 GP per point. To get a stunning slave with a beauty of 18, you will have to fork out an additional 180 GP.  Otherwise, slaves may be considered to have a CHR of zero.

Slaves may be male or female." Ken St. Andre, Tunnels & Trolls, §3.7 (Liz Danforth ed., 5th ed., Flying Buffalo 1979).

Quote from: Bren;986040Doubled is the high end price. Undoubled is the low end price.

Doubled would be for Super Strong Slave or Beautiful Young Slave Girl or even more, 50,000 Denarii mentioned for the Roman Slave Girl in the 301 a.d. auctions is equivalent to about 200 troy ounces of gold if the exchange rates are correct... which is roughly 3500 Gp in ancient Rome / Classic D&D.

P.S. Totally completely dislike this new RPGsite BBS interface, probably won't be posting here much anymore. Can't see how many people are reading the posts, the stickies, which go mostly unread dominate the new post threads and are distracting. All the stats and vistor reports are gone from the bottom of the page... Not sure what the vBulletin design team was hoping they would accomplish trying to make this forum look like the Apple Store for ignorant fucks, but they failed entirely.

Nvm. Somehow the website reconfigured itself for the default mobile style. The webpage display style can be reset in the lower left corner of the webpage and should be set to vB4 Default. Condolences for you guys using phones and tablets to view this forum, as a failed retarded Apple designer was obviously put in charge of doing the presentation and layout for the mobile version of this website. He/she didn't even match the color scheme.

Quote from: GameDaddy;985809The Roman Slave Trade

The Roman economy was built on a foundation of slavery, which was taken for granted as a normal feature of society. Even the early bishoprics and monastic houses kept slaves, despite the radical ideas of Christianity which emphasised equality.

Most slaves fell into their unfortunate position after being captured in battle or condemned for a criminal offence. Julius Caesar brought back a million people from Gaul. Huge numbers of people must have been enslaved after the conquest in Britain, and Strabo classified them among the goods exported from pre-Roman Britain to Gaul. Aristotle refers to a slave as a 'vocal tool'. They were seen as non-persons who could justifiably be traded as a commodity. A good slave cost 2000 denarii, although a pretty girl could cost 50,000 denarii including tax. According to the sales contract, they are 'non-returnable, except for epilepsy'.

So after they conquered, the Roman army would travel to the native villages and round up everyone, place them in chains, and bring them back to Rome. All the men, women and children that remained. The newly captured lands were given as prizes to the Roman soldiers, who then resettled the provinces.

PAX ROMANA

And that's why Rome isn't a good comparison for games set in the Neverwinter:). I mean, any country that does that would instantly be labelled LE in the game setting, and even I know that Neverwinter would never allow that to happen to them!

Quote from: estar;985817Unless he has a stronghold, the character wasting his time as long as they stick around Neverwinter. There nothing to gain by having a slave. What he should do is scout a place in the wilderness, establish a stronghold, either raid for labor, or buy them from south and bring them up north.

I concur, but it's his gold, or more likely, someone else's gold that he acquired;).