Okay, hear me out, an OSR-ish game of Post-Apocalyptic Cowboys of the Wastelands.
Post Apocalyptic Cowboys of the Wastelands (name very much a place holder).
Civilization in ruins, new diseases, mutated animals/plants, radiation/bio wastelands... But despite it all life goes on, people rise up to meet the challenge and to overcome!
Races:
Humans.- No noticeable mutations, but it's very unlikely there's a single non mutated human left.
The Scann (Psions) (Still searching for a name).- Mutated Humans whose mutation grants them psionic powers like telepathy, biokinesis, etc.
Cympanji (Elevated Ape).- It's unclear how but some of the great apes gained human like intelligence, it's suspected there might be other Elevated species but none have been encountered yet.
Gori.- Mutated Humans whose mutation gave them a rhinoceros like hide, a foot taller than "normal" Humans, stronger but also physically slower.
Classes:
Shaman-Healer-Medicine Man/Woman-Lore Keeper
Raider (As in tomb raider)
Hunter
Drifter
Tinkerer
It's just about 200 years after the fall, not all of humanity was thrown into the stone age if any (still not sure about that).
There's no lasers, light sabers, blasters, etc. (So far I'm putting the fall in the 21st century).
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 12:25:03 PMThere's no lasers, light sabers, blasters, etc. (So far I'm putting the fall in the 21st century).
Are you sure about putting the fall in the current day? The date used for the fall has a pretty big impact on the setting's available gear and aesthetic. I'd suggest an earlier date back when the tech was more durable and more likely to be usable 200 years post collapse. The 1980s perhaps?
Hieros Journey, by Sterling Lanier, has a similar feel.
Cowboys of the Wastelands has a nice ring to it (don't know if taken). I picture a guy with a cowboy hat and a wastelander jacket riding a lowrider through a Mad Max wasteland.
Races
Not bad ideas, but no random mutations race? Also Elevated Lizards might go better with a wasteland desert theme (particularly if this is set in the Americas, where there are no apes), but apes could could work too if they're some sort of escaped pre-cataclysm genetic experiments that managed to thrive in the wild.
Classes
Lacks warrior classes. If Raider = Tomb Raiders (as in exploring pre-cataclysm ruins for goods) a term like Scavenger might work best. "Raider" tends to be used for ruthless wasteland warriors in post-apocalyptic fiction.
A "wastelander" class might be good just to throw that term out there. Might work as another term for "hunter" or "wasteland ranger/survival specialist". Or might be a more general warrior class.
Are you using Mutant Future rules?
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 03, 2022, 01:21:02 PM
Cowboys of the Wastelands has a nice ring to it (don't know if taken). I picture a guy with a cowboy hat and a wastelander jacket riding a lowrider through a Mad Max wasteland.
Races
Not bad ideas, but no random mutations race? Also Elevated Lizards might go better with a wasteland desert theme (particularly if this is set in the Americas, where there are no apes), but apes could could work too if they're some sort of escaped pre-cataclysm genetic experiments that managed to thrive in the wild.
Classes
Lacks warrior classes. If Raider = Tomb Raiders (as in exploring pre-cataclysm ruins for goods) a term like Scavenger might work best. "Raider" tends to be used for ruthless wasteland warriors in post-apocalyptic fiction.
A "wastelander" class might be good just to throw that term out there. Might work as another term for "hunter" or "wasteland ranger/survival specialist". Or might be a more general warrior class.
Random mutations, as a PC? could be, since I guess there's still mutants being born, yes, I like it.
What's the biggest lizard in the US? I'm not going for a substitute for halflings. I figure there's enough chimps in your Zoos as to have them mutated by whatever, escape and then multiply over 200 years.
I figured the Drifter would be the warrior, kinda western but it's not gunslinger.
Scavenger... Yes, I like it.
Wastelander... Could be, instead of Drifter, and it's the warrior class.
Hunter because I am trying to avoid the Brave because it's not really a NA tribesman.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 03, 2022, 01:33:02 PM
Are you using Mutant Future rules?
Haven't figured that part out yet.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on August 03, 2022, 12:46:32 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 12:25:03 PMThere's no lasers, light sabers, blasters, etc. (So far I'm putting the fall in the 21st century).
Are you sure about putting the fall in the current day? The date used for the fall has a pretty big impact on the setting's available gear and aesthetic. I'd suggest an earlier date back when the tech was more durable and more likely to be usable 200 years post collapse. The 1980s perhaps?
Now, that's something I hadn't thought. On the one hand it would make finding usable stuff harder, on the other hand it would make finding usable stuff harder...
Choices, choices... Will have to think it out because you DO have a point.
An apocalypse would trigger a lot of latent religiosity, so for classes you might want to add priest, prophet, soothsayer, etc.
Also, as a fan of MCC RPG, random mutations are also very fun.
Sounds similar to Broken Earth, by Sneak Attack Press (Savage Worlds), which also includes sentient chimanzees as a playable race.
Instead of "Raider" I'd probably go with Scavver or Delver if the class is focused on finding useful stuff in the ruins of the wastes.
Deadlands: Hell on Earth uses the term Psyker for their "psionists." You might want to do something a little different for your game and add a unique twist to psionics. Maybe digging around in peoples' thoughts makes them a little loopy. Psicho would be a cool class name.
What's the general focus of each class?
Raider seems like an analog for the rogue/thief, and Hunter probably fills the role of scout/ranger. Is Drifter the fighter? Is Tinkerer a magic class, or are their abilities rooted in the mundane?
Otherwise, it looks neat. I'm always down for a new post-apoc setting.
Greetings!
The biggest Lizard in the US? Probably the Ghila Monster, a pretty thick-limbed, and foul-tempered creature that lives in the South-Western United States. There may be some as well in the deserts of California.
Other than that, well, there are the ferocious Alligators! They live in the South-Eastern United States--Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida. Pretty much in the swamps and marshes. They can get very large--and they like to eat people, too. ;D
I understand that it is fairly common for folks down there abouts to walk outside into their backyard, hoping to go swimming in their pool, and they often encounter Alligators swimming in their pool! *Laughing* Or the Alligators are lounging about poolside, sunning themselves.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 03:18:29 PM
I understand that it is fairly common for folks down there abouts to walk outside into their backyard, hoping to go swimming in their pool, and they often encounter Alligators swimming in their pool! *Laughing* Or the Alligators are lounging about poolside, sunning themselves.
LOL I can assure you that it's not "common" to find gators in Florida swimming pools. Canals and lakes (which are
everywhere), that's another story!
One other thing to note, the
crocodiles in Florida are actually larger and much more dangerous, but not nearly as numerous.
Quote from: rytrasmi on August 03, 2022, 02:19:57 PM
An apocalypse would trigger a lot of latent religiosity, so for classes you might want to add priest, prophet, soothsayer, etc.
Also, as a fan of MCC RPG, random mutations are also very fun.
You are correct. On both counts.
Quote from: Effete on August 03, 2022, 02:27:47 PM
Sounds similar to Broken Earth, by Sneak Attack Press (Savage Worlds), which also includes sentient chimanzees as a playable race.
Instead of "Raider" I'd probably go with Scavver or Delver if the class is focused on finding useful stuff in the ruins of the wastes.
Deadlands: Hell on Earth uses the term Psyker for their "psionists." You might want to do something a little different for your game and add a unique twist to psionics. Maybe digging around in peoples' thoughts makes them a little loopy. Psicho would be a cool class name.
What's the general focus of each class?
Raider seems like an analog for the rogue/thief, and Hunter probably fills the role of scout/ranger. Is Drifter the fighter? Is Tinkerer a magic class, or are their abilities rooted in the mundane?
Otherwise, it looks neat. I'm always down for a new post-apoc setting.
Yep, a friend on discord told me the same thing about broken earth.
I had thought on having the telepaths go crazy and kill themselves or start a murder spree to stop hearing the voices in their heads. Keeping only the telekinetics at play. I've been working on my own take for psionics for a while.
You got all of the classes except the tinkerer, it's sort of a depowered gadgeteer but he cobles things together from the scraps they take to town, also the mechanic that'll fix your car, etc.
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 03:18:29 PM
Greetings!
The biggest Lizard in the US? Probably the Ghila Monster, a pretty thick-limbed, and foul-tempered creature that lives in the South-Western United States. There may be some as well in the deserts of California.
Other than that, well, there are the ferocious Alligators! They live in the South-Eastern United States--Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida. Pretty much in the swamps and marshes. They can get very large--and they like to eat people, too. ;D
I understand that it is fairly common for folks down there abouts to walk outside into their backyard, hoping to go swimming in their pool, and they often encounter Alligators swimming in their pool! *Laughing* Or the Alligators are lounging about poolside, sunning themselves.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings hermano! Good to see you back! (Now if we could only get Pat back too).
LOL gators and crocks aren't lizards.
As far as I know (and I'm no expert) the bigest lizard (if they are that) in the continent would be the Iguana. Anyhow I might go for lizard men or maybe not. Who knows at this point?
Your title made me think of Fallout, but then I say you don't want lasers and power armor. Still, the Fallout attitude can fit even without the retro-future tech.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 03, 2022, 05:28:38 PM
Your title made me think of Fallout, but then I say you don't want lasers and power armor. Still, the Fallout attitude can fit even without the retro-future tech.
Well, in what little lore I have so far, the starting town was created/populated by preppers so I guess yes.
Quote from: Zalman on August 03, 2022, 03:46:21 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 03:18:29 PM
I understand that it is fairly common for folks down there abouts to walk outside into their backyard, hoping to go swimming in their pool, and they often encounter Alligators swimming in their pool! *Laughing* Or the Alligators are lounging about poolside, sunning themselves.
LOL I can assure you that it's not "common" to find gators in Florida swimming pools. Canals and lakes (which are everywhere), that's another story!
One other thing to note, the crocodiles in Florida are actually larger and much more dangerous, but not nearly as numerous.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Nice, Zalman! I like Alligators. Crocodiles, you say? I thought...crocodiles were not native animals to the US though? WTF have those Nature books been telling me!!!?? ;D
Zalman, have you eaten Alligator?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 03:18:29 PM
Greetings!
The biggest Lizard in the US? Probably the Ghila Monster, a pretty thick-limbed, and foul-tempered creature that lives in the South-Western United States. There may be some as well in the deserts of California.
Other than that, well, there are the ferocious Alligators! They live in the South-Eastern United States--Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida. Pretty much in the swamps and marshes. They can get very large--and they like to eat people, too. ;D
I understand that it is fairly common for folks down there abouts to walk outside into their backyard, hoping to go swimming in their pool, and they often encounter Alligators swimming in their pool! *Laughing* Or the Alligators are lounging about poolside, sunning themselves.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings hermano! Good to see you back! (Now if we could only get Pat back too).
LOL gators and crocks aren't lizards.
As far as I know (and I'm no expert) the bigest lizard (if they are that) in the continent would be the Iguana. Anyhow I might go for lizard men or maybe not. Who knows at this point?
Greetings!
Thank you, Hermano!
Yes, Alligators and Crocodiles are not lizards. I like them, though.
Iguanas. I forgot, how big do Iguanas get?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 06:19:10 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 03:18:29 PM
Greetings!
The biggest Lizard in the US? Probably the Ghila Monster, a pretty thick-limbed, and foul-tempered creature that lives in the South-Western United States. There may be some as well in the deserts of California.
Other than that, well, there are the ferocious Alligators! They live in the South-Eastern United States--Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida. Pretty much in the swamps and marshes. They can get very large--and they like to eat people, too. ;D
I understand that it is fairly common for folks down there abouts to walk outside into their backyard, hoping to go swimming in their pool, and they often encounter Alligators swimming in their pool! *Laughing* Or the Alligators are lounging about poolside, sunning themselves.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings hermano! Good to see you back! (Now if we could only get Pat back too).
LOL gators and crocks aren't lizards.
As far as I know (and I'm no expert) the bigest lizard (if they are that) in the continent would be the Iguana. Anyhow I might go for lizard men or maybe not. Who knows at this point?
Greetings!
Thank you, Hermano!
Yes, Alligators and Crocodiles are not lizards. I like them, though.
Iguanas. I forgot, how big do Iguanas get?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Not counting the tail about 42 cm around 17 inches. Tasty critters too, you should try them in salsa verde. Gator is tasty too.
I know, how about catmen? there's plenty of medium size cats in the continent, maybe an Ocelote? We could call them tabaxi! ;D
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 06:16:19 PM
Crocodiles, you say? I thought...crocodiles were not native animals to the US though? WTF have those Nature books been telling me!!!?? ;D
Yup! The United States is the only country in the world where both crocs and gators are indiginous.
My grandmother lived in Florida and we would visit as kids every couple years or so. There was a pond near her house with a walking path around it. Gators would sun themselves on the warm concrete often. They were fairly docile too. As long as you didn't get closer than 15 feet or so, they'd just mind their own business.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 06:57:05 PM
I know, how about catmen? there's plenty of medium size cats in the continent, maybe an Ocelote? We could call them tabaxi! ;D
What tone are you going for?
Because once you start adding anthropomorphic animals, I think that introduces a healthy degree of camp.
Mutant Bastards, a Gamma World clone/restatement, is a sort of post-apoc western.
Quote from: Effete on August 03, 2022, 08:42:17 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 06:57:05 PM
I know, how about catmen? there's plenty of medium size cats in the continent, maybe an Ocelote? We could call them tabaxi! ;D
What tone are you going for?
Because once you start adding anthropomorphic animals, I think that introduces a healthy degree of camp.
No, not anthros, elevated animals, very different. But I'm jocking, I'll stick to the four races I already mentioned plus Freaks (roll for random mutation). At least for now.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 02:05:58 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 03, 2022, 01:21:02 PM
Cowboys of the Wastelands has a nice ring to it (don't know if taken). I picture a guy with a cowboy hat and a wastelander jacket riding a lowrider through a Mad Max wasteland.
Races
Not bad ideas, but no random mutations race? Also Elevated Lizards might go better with a wasteland desert theme (particularly if this is set in the Americas, where there are no apes), but apes could could work too if they're some sort of escaped pre-cataclysm genetic experiments that managed to thrive in the wild.
Classes
Lacks warrior classes. If Raider = Tomb Raiders (as in exploring pre-cataclysm ruins for goods) a term like Scavenger might work best. "Raider" tends to be used for ruthless wasteland warriors in post-apocalyptic fiction.
A "wastelander" class might be good just to throw that term out there. Might work as another term for "hunter" or "wasteland ranger/survival specialist". Or might be a more general warrior class.
Random mutations, as a PC? could be, since I guess there's still mutants being born, yes, I like it.
What's the biggest lizard in the US? I'm not going for a substitute for halflings. I figure there's enough chimps in your Zoos as to have them mutated by whatever, escape and then multiply over 200 years.
I figured the Drifter would be the warrior, kinda western but it's not gunslinger.
Scavenger... Yes, I like it.
Wastelander... Could be, instead of Drifter, and it's the warrior class.
Hunter because I am trying to avoid the Brave because it's not really a NA tribesman.
Ah, I figured that Drifters would be more like scoundrels or rogue types. They could work as warriors too, I suppose, but more like warrior-rogues, since the term has outlaw connotations. Or you could just change the name to Wastelander, like you mentioned, and phase them out, or use the word "drifter" more as a descriptive term rather than a class.
Having gunslingers would be nice too, if you're going for a western feel, but maybe you wanna keep the classes tight instead of going overboard. "Gun-slinging" could just be a skill.
Also, if you decide to just stick to the four races as character races, you might wanna consider the lizard men or other mutated creatures idea for antagonists. The wasteland is not just gonna mutate humans alone, after all. You could have giant crocodiles at the toxic swamplands, overgrown bearded lizards that shoot venom from dozens of yards away, psionic coyotes that can confuse their victims with their howls and cause them to hallucinate, etc. There could be a lotta stuff you could work with if you're going for a mutating wasteland that can warp creatures into newer breeds.
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 03, 2022, 11:57:50 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 03, 2022, 02:05:58 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on August 03, 2022, 01:21:02 PM
Cowboys of the Wastelands has a nice ring to it (don't know if taken). I picture a guy with a cowboy hat and a wastelander jacket riding a lowrider through a Mad Max wasteland.
Races
Not bad ideas, but no random mutations race? Also Elevated Lizards might go better with a wasteland desert theme (particularly if this is set in the Americas, where there are no apes), but apes could could work too if they're some sort of escaped pre-cataclysm genetic experiments that managed to thrive in the wild.
Classes
Lacks warrior classes. If Raider = Tomb Raiders (as in exploring pre-cataclysm ruins for goods) a term like Scavenger might work best. "Raider" tends to be used for ruthless wasteland warriors in post-apocalyptic fiction.
A "wastelander" class might be good just to throw that term out there. Might work as another term for "hunter" or "wasteland ranger/survival specialist". Or might be a more general warrior class.
Random mutations, as a PC? could be, since I guess there's still mutants being born, yes, I like it.
What's the biggest lizard in the US? I'm not going for a substitute for halflings. I figure there's enough chimps in your Zoos as to have them mutated by whatever, escape and then multiply over 200 years.
I figured the Drifter would be the warrior, kinda western but it's not gunslinger.
Scavenger... Yes, I like it.
Wastelander... Could be, instead of Drifter, and it's the warrior class.
Hunter because I am trying to avoid the Brave because it's not really a NA tribesman.
Ah, I figured that Drifters would be more like scoundrels or rogue types. They could work as warriors too, I suppose, but more like warrior-rogues, since the term has outlaw connotations. Or you could just change the name to Wastelander, like you mentioned, and phase them out, or use the word "drifter" more as a descriptive term rather than a class.
Having gunslingers would be nice too, if you're going for a western feel, but maybe you wanna keep the classes tight instead of going overboard. "Gun-slinging" could just be a skill.
Also, if you decide to just stick to the four races as character races, you might wanna consider the lizard men or other mutated creatures idea for antagonists. The wasteland is not just gonna mutate humans alone, after all. You could have giant crocodiles at the toxic swamplands, overgrown bearded lizards that shoot venom from dozens of yards away, psionic coyotes that can confuse their victims with their howls and cause them to hallucinate, etc. There could be a lotta stuff you could work with if you're going for a mutating wasteland that can warp creatures into newer breeds.
I was thinking that gunslinging would be a skill yes.
Other mutants as monsters was part of the plan.
I'm thinking of the monetary system, coins or paper bills would have no value so bullets? I mean no one is manufacturing them in bulk so I think it's a natural for an exchange medium. Thoughts?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 12:44:55 AM
I'm thinking of the monetary system, coins or paper bills would have no value so bullets? I mean no one is manufacturing them in bulk so I think it's a natural for an exchange medium. Thoughts?
Anything but bottlecaps. ;)
With the collapse of banking, there'd be no real purpose (or support structure) for a "currency." Things would devolve back into a barter economy. My suggestion would be, in place of a particular, set currency, characters collect "scrap." Scrap represents anything that has value and can be sold, but players (and GMs) don't need to go through the hassle of describing exactly what their scrap is. So it works exactly like a currency (in game terms), but is still nebulous as far as what it actually is.
A bonus to this approach is, if you're using Hero Points or something similar, you can have a rule where by spending those points, characters can turn their "scrap" into an actual item. So let's say a character finds an old machine that needs a new fuse (value 20). The wastelander has 60 scrap, so he spends a Hero point or two and turns 20 scrap into a fuse. He now has 40 scrap left over.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 12:44:55 AM
I'm thinking of the monetary system, coins or paper bills would have no value so bullets? I mean no one is manufacturing them in bulk so I think it's a natural for an exchange medium. Thoughts?
Ammo as currency was done Metro.
Realistically, ammo does not keep that well, just look at how badly poorly stored surplus ammo behaves in real life. Firearms probably reverted to cap and ball or flintlocks in areas where percussion cap tech is too advanced.
Quote from: Wisithir on August 04, 2022, 01:36:28 AM
Realistically, ammo does not keep that well, just look at how badly poorly stored surplus ammo behaves in real life. Firearms probably reverted to cap and ball or flintlocks in areas where percussion cap tech is too advanced.
Yeah, I'd imagine breach-loaded pipeguns would become far more common than pistols, revolvers, or god-forbid, automatics.
Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2022, 01:31:08 AM
With the collapse of banking, there'd be no real purpose (or support structure) for a "currency." Things would devolve back into a barter economy.
A store of value is incredibly useful as it allows incremental transactions and does not require both participants have goods on hand to make an exchange. I imagine local community promissory note or scrip/chits would be developed quickly and would have distance based deprecation if exchanged externally. Conversely, some company script might be incredibly valuable because of the commodities that could be bought with it, regardless of distance.
From a historical standpoint, I would speculate that refined metals and spices or flavorings would valuable commodities in lower redeveloped areas.
Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2022, 02:32:01 AM
Yeah, I'd imagine breach-loaded pipeguns would become far more common than pistols, revolvers, or god-forbid, automatics.
Automatics are actually simpler than wheel guns, but are sensitive to ammunition and do not handle black powder fowling for long. Matchlock blunderbusses will definitely make a comeback too.
Perhaps lean into the name more and make the fall occur in the 1870s or 1880s and it's only 50 or 60 years later and has a more literal Old West aesthetic. What would have caused a global fall of this kind in the 19th century? I'm not sure. Perhaps a virus that is also resposible for the mutations.
Quote from: SHARK on August 03, 2022, 06:16:19 PM
Zalman, have you eaten Alligator?
I certainly have! Some restaurants serve it down here, and you can get gator jerky at numerous roadside stands (along with fresh tomatoes and boiled peanuts). Perhaps more germane to gaming, I've also watched the Miccosukee natives
wrestle alligators, which involves grabbing the gator by the snout, flipping it over, and rubbing its belly until the gator falls asleep.
Make the game! I'll buy it!
Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2022, 02:32:01 AM
Quote from: Wisithir on August 04, 2022, 01:36:28 AM
Realistically, ammo does not keep that well, just look at how badly poorly stored surplus ammo behaves in real life. Firearms probably reverted to cap and ball or flintlocks in areas where percussion cap tech is too advanced.
Yeah, I'd imagine breach-loaded pipeguns would become far more common than pistols, revolvers, or god-forbid, automatics.
Two questions:
Why should one care about realism on a game with talking chimps, psions and other mutants?
Without an industry to melt/forge/machine the guns how do you figure those would make a comeback?
Not being a gun nut, I figure the main issue with A/SA weapons and black powder is it lacks the power to reload/cock the gun, the solids can be cleaned.
So, either only revolvers, and bolt action rifles (are there still lever action ones being manufactured?) and shotguns would be in use, for those black powder was enough at the begining.
OR someone knows how, has the equipment and is manufacturing smokeless powder, a very involved process.
But that's only IF one wants to keep it real.
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 04, 2022, 04:39:33 AM
Perhaps lean into the name more and make the fall occur in the 1870s or 1880s and it's only 50 or 60 years later and has a more literal Old West aesthetic. What would have caused a global fall of this kind in the 19th century? I'm not sure. Perhaps a virus that is also resposible for the mutations.
Isn't that the premise for Deadlands?
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on August 04, 2022, 10:24:43 AM
Make the game! I'll buy it!
I'm making it! Not sure when it will be ready but I'll let you guys know... Unless I manage to get myself banned.
Rifts has New West (and some companion titles) that might be useful for post-apoc western stuff.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 04, 2022, 03:23:52 PM
Rifts has New West (and some companion titles) that might be useful for post-apoc western stuff.
And I have no money and no Trove thanks to DDFox (fuck him). But thanks for the recomendation.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 04, 2022, 03:23:52 PM
Rifts has New West (and some companion titles) that might be useful for post-apoc western stuff.
And I have no money and no Trove thanks to DDFox (fuck him). But thanks for the recomendation.
Sorry to hear. I saw copies on eBay for $10, but I don't know what s&h is to your area, and $10 is still > free.
We could call it " Ark II: The Gritty Version" or maybe "Ark II : The Next Generation".
I have always wanted to do "Ark II" as an RPG setting - but do it in a much more realistic style.
The crew or team would have one or two more member, no damn talking chimp ...and obvious bunk beds inside the Ark vehicle with guns and body armor for when they might need them.
- Ed C.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 04, 2022, 04:39:33 AM
Perhaps lean into the name more and make the fall occur in the 1870s or 1880s and it's only 50 or 60 years later and has a more literal Old West aesthetic. What would have caused a global fall of this kind in the 19th century? I'm not sure. Perhaps a virus that is also resposible for the mutations.
Isn't that the premise for Deadlands?
I haven't played Deadlands but my understanding was that it is alternative history Old West rather than a post Apocalyptic Old West.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 04, 2022, 03:59:13 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 04, 2022, 03:23:52 PM
Rifts has New West (and some companion titles) that might be useful for post-apoc western stuff.
And I have no money and no Trove thanks to DDFox (fuck him). But thanks for the recomendation.
Sorry to hear. I saw copies on eBay for $10, but I don't know what s&h is to your area, and $10 is still > free.
It's also $10 + shipping, so a bit more than that. I guess it would end 2x or 3x that, which is 3-4 days of food.
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 04, 2022, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 04, 2022, 04:39:33 AM
Perhaps lean into the name more and make the fall occur in the 1870s or 1880s and it's only 50 or 60 years later and has a more literal Old West aesthetic. What would have caused a global fall of this kind in the 19th century? I'm not sure. Perhaps a virus that is also resposible for the mutations.
Isn't that the premise for Deadlands?
I haven't played Deadlands but my understanding was that it is alternative history Old West rather than a post Apocalyptic Old West.
Oh, yes, I meant the thing about being in the literal wild west or almost but something happens and now there's demons/mutants.
Quote from: Koltar on August 04, 2022, 04:33:45 PM
We could call it " Ark II: The Gritty Version" or maybe "Ark II : The Next Generation".
I have always wanted to do "Ark II" as an RPG setting - but do it in a much more realistic style.
The crew or team would have one or two more member, no damn talking chimp ...and obvious bunk beds inside the Ark vehicle with guns and body armor for when they might need them.
- Ed C.
You have the idea, I guess all the GURPS books needed to make it real. What's stoping you?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 04, 2022, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 11:45:42 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 04, 2022, 04:39:33 AM
Perhaps lean into the name more and make the fall occur in the 1870s or 1880s and it's only 50 or 60 years later and has a more literal Old West aesthetic. What would have caused a global fall of this kind in the 19th century? I'm not sure. Perhaps a virus that is also resposible for the mutations.
Isn't that the premise for Deadlands?
I haven't played Deadlands but my understanding was that it is alternative history Old West rather than a post Apocalyptic Old West.
Oh, yes, I meant the thing about being in the literal wild west or almost but something happens and now there's demons/mutants.
Well sure but post apocalyptic worlds generally are a dime a dozen. Like the one originally described would fit pretty neatly into Judge Dredds Cursed Earth
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 11:44:25 AM
Two questions:
Why should one care about realism on a game with talking chimps, psions and other mutants?
Without an industry to melt/forge/machine the guns how do you figure those would make a comeback?
I think it is more about consistent world building than realism, are the consequences believable and if they vary from expectation is this explained in the lore. Talking chimps, psions and other mutants fall under willing suspension of disbelief, we don't have any in real life so accept the author's word that they work as described. When we do understand how something works, deviating from that pattern requires a justification of some kind to keep things plausible instead of nonsensical.
Firearms would produced by cottage gunsmiths instead of industrial manufacturing and would be made from easier to work materials like brass and iron instead of steel, aluminum, or polymer. Weaker materials would be suitable because of the lower pressure of black powder. It's not a net energy problem but a pressure curve, fowling, and clouds of vison obscuring smoke problem. I can elaborate further if such would be of any value.
Quote from: Wisithir on August 04, 2022, 09:24:48 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 11:44:25 AM
Two questions:
Why should one care about realism on a game with talking chimps, psions and other mutants?
Without an industry to melt/forge/machine the guns how do you figure those would make a comeback?
I think it is more about consistent world building than realism, are the consequences believable and if they vary from expectation is this explained in the lore. Talking chimps, psions and other mutants fall under willing suspension of disbelief, we don't have any in real life so accept the author's word that they work as described. When we do understand how something works, deviating from that pattern requires a justification of some kind to keep things plausible instead of nonsensical.
Firearms would produced by cottage gunsmiths instead of industrial manufacturing and would be made from easier to work materials like brass and iron instead of steel, aluminum, or polymer. Weaker materials would be suitable because of the lower pressure of black powder. It's not a net energy problem but a pressure curve, fowling, and clouds of vison obscuring smoke problem. I can elaborate further if such would be of any value.
That's fine and dandy, and I would asppreciate further elaboration.
Now, here's the thing: How many people KNOW that gun ammo deteriorates over time if not correctly stored? Not that many I would guess, we know that guns withstand centuries even under sub optimal circumnstances, so, finding guns that work is a throw of a dice (two really), same for ammo in good state.
Smokeless powder fabrication is very involved and requires several previous steps. In the novel in my head I have a perfect explanation as to why some settlements have the means to elaborate it. This might end up as part of the lore, depending on which way I end up going.
But, again, modern revolvers do work with black powder since they don't need to move the carriage, etc. The range would be less of course, but I already have the range for Western weapons.
Let me expand a bit on the finding relics part:
The party goes to a city, it's overgrown with vegetation and full of mutant plants and beasts, maybe even some intelligent gator men. After avoiding/killing/whatever the oposition they find a police precint, go inside and find the cops weapons (some of them) then they find some ammo, roll to see how much and if it's in good state (or the GM does this when prepping).
Then they go to a museum, turns out it has some ancient vehicles (I know one such here in México city specialized in classic cars), well the tinkerer goes and makes sure one is in good enough condition, but there's no battery, now what? can they find the stuff needed to build one?
Or they find a steam tractor, well that's "easier" just make sure it's in good condition, fill it with water, find some wood/coal and you have a working vehicle that can drag the muscle car (or several wagons full of scraps they found).
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 11:44:25 AM
Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2022, 02:32:01 AM
Quote from: Wisithir on August 04, 2022, 01:36:28 AM
Realistically, ammo does not keep that well, just look at how badly poorly stored surplus ammo behaves in real life. Firearms probably reverted to cap and ball or flintlocks in areas where percussion cap tech is too advanced.
Yeah, I'd imagine breach-loaded pipeguns would become far more common than pistols, revolvers, or god-forbid, automatics.
Two questions:
Why should one care about realism on a game with talking chimps, psions and other mutants?
One shouldn't. :)
The important factor in a post-apoc setting is finding the right balance on resource management, not the logistics on how those resources are replenished. The focus should be on maximazing fun, rather than trying to simulate a real world apocalypse. Characters with a Science skill should have a chance to produce black powder or other explosive from whatever the find in the world. Anybody with a mechanical press can make their own rounds (the only real concern is acquiring the primers, but that's easy to ignore for the sake of maximizing fun).
QuoteWithout an industry to melt/forge/machine the guns how do you figure those would make a comeback?
Pipeguns are super simple to produce. All you need is a steel pipe and some way to seal one end. There was a story from about 6 years ago or so about a "no questions asked" gun buyback program in Texas. A guy built a bunch a functional shotguns out of gas pipes and 2x4s for about five dollars each, then sold them to the government for 100 bucks each. 8)
With the possible exception of the black powder, simple guns (muskets) can be built from scavenged materials.
QuoteSo, either only revolvers, and bolt action rifles (are there still lever action ones being manufactured?) and shotguns would be in use, for those black powder was enough at the begining.
Yes, lever-actions are still being made. They're still very popular in shooting competitions.
Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2022, 10:27:41 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 11:44:25 AM
Quote from: Effete on August 04, 2022, 02:32:01 AM
Quote from: Wisithir on August 04, 2022, 01:36:28 AM
Realistically, ammo does not keep that well, just look at how badly poorly stored surplus ammo behaves in real life. Firearms probably reverted to cap and ball or flintlocks in areas where percussion cap tech is too advanced.
Yeah, I'd imagine breach-loaded pipeguns would become far more common than pistols, revolvers, or god-forbid, automatics.
Two questions:
Why should one care about realism on a game with talking chimps, psions and other mutants?
One shouldn't. :)
The important factor in a post-apoc setting is finding the right balance on resource management, not the logistics on how those resources are replenished. The focus should be on maximazing fun, rather than trying to simulate a real world apocalypse. Characters with a Science skill should have a chance to produce black powder or other explosive from whatever the find in the world. Anybody with a mechanical press can make their own rounds (the only real concern is acquiring the primers, but that's easy to ignore for the sake of maximizing fun).
QuoteWithout an industry to melt/forge/machine the guns how do you figure those would make a comeback?
Pipeguns are super simple to produce. All you need is a steel pipe and some way to seal one end. There was a story from about 6 years ago or so about a "no questions asked" gun buyback program in Texas. A guy built a bunch a functional shotguns out of gas pipes and 2x4s for about five dollars each, then sold them to the government for 100 bucks each. 8)
With the possible exception of the black powder, simple guns (muskets) can be built from scavenged materials.
QuoteSo, either only revolvers, and bolt action rifles (are there still lever action ones being manufactured?) and shotguns would be in use, for those black powder was enough at the begining.
Yes, lever-actions are still being made. They're still very popular in shooting competitions.
Okay, now picture this:
characters start with either a home made "gun" or a bow, they go on an adventure, they find some revolvers, rifles, compound bows, and ammo, now they have some +1 "vorpal swords". This gives them faster loading weapons (except the bow, that's the same), increased range and accuracy.
In what was the city's university they recover some lab equipment because the tinkerer wants it. Then they go to some factory and find some chemicals.
On some museum they find a steam tractor, maybe an electric generator or some other stuff, they can find a way to take it all or to call for help to transport everything back to town.
Sounds plausible enough?
Could be several different adventures too.
The examples provided are mostly plausible. My only question is why these resources have not been looted in the years since the fall, as to be available for the party to harvest. I would postulate a "brain scorcher" effect that zombieffied humans until countermeasure could be developed by the emergent psionics. The intelligent lizard race was not effected by this and thrived in the human free areas while venerating pre-fall tech and collecting artifacts in their temples. Thy had lots of time to hoard but not use the good stuff, and now the adventures are guaranteed to find some goodies when tomb raiding.
Hardest part for the adventures would be keeping their toys running as spare and consumable parts for pre-fall tech are unlikely to be produced in the post-fall world. Pre-fall guns are probably best handled like magic wands. They require a specialty to operate, have a chance of failure, are rarely found with full charges, and require further specialization and equipment to repurpose incompatible wand charges or recharge from scratch. Pre-fall sport bows make garbage war bows. The draw is too light, as in a foam dart gun is not a varmint hunting air rifle. However, there will be lots of pre-fall components to make excellent crossbows out of.
Much of my own interest lies in how the post-fall world functions out side of the time capsule dungeons as scavenging has diminishing returns and eventually rebuilding is inevitable. A short term example would be shelf stable food; there is only so much to be salvaged before new food has to be grown.
Accurate depictions of real word constraints is not a requirement of a game, but I prefer not to world build counting on player ignorance and have my world collapse under the slightest unforeseen scrutiny. There's no harm in having players learn something about the real world from playing a game. Conversely, a pulp game is more concerned with emulating the genre than replicating reality, but it then strives to be true to genre instead.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 04, 2022, 10:43:56 PM
Okay, now picture this:
characters start with either a home made "gun" or a bow, they go on an adventure, they find some revolvers, rifles, compound bows, and ammo, now they have some +1 "vorpal swords". This gives them faster loading weapons (except the bow, that's the same), increased range and accuracy.
In what was the city's university they recover some lab equipment because the tinkerer wants it. Then they go to some factory and find some chemicals.
On some museum they find a steam tractor, maybe an electric generator or some other stuff, they can find a way to take it all or to call for help to transport everything back to town.
Sounds plausible enough?
Could be several different adventures too.
Yeah, that sounds perfectly fine to me.
Quote from: Wisithir on August 05, 2022, 12:04:46 AM
The examples provided are mostly plausible. My only question is why these resources have not been looted in the years since the fall, as to be available for the party to harvest. I would postulate a "brain scorcher" effect that zombieffied humans until countermeasure could be developed by the emergent psionics. The intelligent lizard race was not effected by this and thrived in the human free areas while venerating pre-fall tech and collecting artifacts in their temples. Thy had lots of time to hoard but not use the good stuff, and now the adventures are guaranteed to find some goodies when tomb raiding.
Hardest part for the adventures would be keeping their toys running as spare and consumable parts for pre-fall tech are unlikely to be produced in the post-fall world. Pre-fall guns are probably best handled like magic wands. They require a specialty to operate, have a chance of failure, are rarely found with full charges, and require further specialization and equipment to repurpose incompatible wand charges or recharge from scratch. Pre-fall sport bows make garbage war bows. The draw is too light, as in a foam dart gun is not a varmint hunting air rifle. However, there will be lots of pre-fall components to make excellent crossbows out of.
Much of my own interest lies in how the post-fall world functions out side of the time capsule dungeons as scavenging has diminishing returns and eventually rebuilding is inevitable. A short term example would be shelf stable food; there is only so much to be salvaged before new food has to be grown.
Accurate depictions of real word constraints is not a requirement of a game, but I prefer not to world build counting on player ignorance and have my world collapse under the slightest unforeseen scrutiny. There's no harm in having players learn something about the real world from playing a game. Conversely, a pulp game is more concerned with emulating the genre than replicating reality, but it then strives to be true to genre instead.
The places were hot zones for the bioweapons?
I like the lizard people bit.
I was planing on writting GM advice on almost those terms, with a few differences, mostly that if you can shoot a home made musket/stingy gun you can use a revolver, and of course they weapons must not have a full charge or have a roll involved and probably need the tinkerer to look them over and tinker with before they can be used, and the ammo could be a dud.
A coumpound bow is better than short bows and even some long bows, especially the lighter ones, try, not a candle to war bows or to the japanese longbows.
Pulp isn't a genre, it's a style and a mind set, one of the components is the handwavium and unobtanium. Other is the B&W morality, characters larger than life... It also isn't a time period.
Quote from: Wisithir on August 05, 2022, 12:04:46 AM
The examples provided are mostly plausible. My only question is why these resources have not been looted in the years since the fall, as to be available for the party to harvest.
Any number of of isolated instances can explain why a particular school /hospital /museum /etc. has not been looted yet. This doesn't require a setting-wide conceit to justify. The resources don't even need to be in their "proper" place. For instance, perhaps they were looted by someone, but now they sit neglected in an abandoned settlement. As I mentioned in a previous post, the only real concern should probably be the impact such an item would have on the balance or tone of the game. If the GM is fine with the player having an item, then any believable contrivance can introduce the item.
QuoteHardest part for the adventures would be keeping their toys running as spare and consumable parts for pre-fall tech are unlikely to be produced in the post-fall world. Pre-fall guns are probably best handled like magic wands. They require a specialty to operate, have a chance of failure, are rarely found with full charges, and require further specialization and equipment to repurpose incompatible wand charges or recharge from scratch. Pre-fall sport bows make garbage war bows. The draw is too light, as in a foam dart gun is not a varmint hunting air rifle. However, there will be lots of pre-fall components to make excellent crossbows out of.
Yes. Resource management is more important than the logistics of how they get replenished. Cars are going to be exerywhere. Acquiring a working car is not going to be a problem. KEEPING the car working (gasoline, oil, tires, other parts) is where the focus should probably be placed.
I also recommend the Jëorg Sprave youtube channel for tutorials on how to make simple and very powerful slingshots and crossbows from basically junk materials.
QuoteMuch of my own interest lies in how the post-fall world functions out side of the time capsule dungeons as scavenging has diminishing returns and eventually rebuilding is inevitable. A short term example would be shelf stable food; there is only so much to be salvaged before new food has to be grown.
This seems to be tbe general principle behind any post-apoc setting: short-term survival with a long-term goal of generating stablity. The longer the game goes on (i.e. higher levels), the more difficult scavving might become. Game focus would shift to settlement building, crop cultivation, and essentially "tower defense" of the resources the players spent the early game collecting. This can flow in tandem with whatever the ultimate end-goal of the campaign is (i.e., find the cure for X disease, re-establish a functioning government, repel the alien invasion, whatever).
QuoteAccurate depictions of real word constraints is not a requirement of a game, but I prefer not to world build counting on player ignorance and have my world collapse under the slightest unforeseen scrutiny.
Eh, that's probably why it's best not to try to flesh these things out in too much detail. The less you explain to the players, the more they will try to fill in the blanks themselves. Avoid overly-detailed macro explanations; keep the game focused on the here-and-now.
Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2022, 12:51:47 AM
Quote from: Wisithir on August 05, 2022, 12:04:46 AM
The examples provided are mostly plausible. My only question is why these resources have not been looted in the years since the fall, as to be available for the party to harvest.
Any number of of isolated instances can explain why a particular school /hospital /museum /etc. has not been looted yet. This doesn't require a setting-wide conceit to justify. The resources don't even need to be in their "proper" place. For instance, perhaps they were looted by someone, but now they sit neglected in an abandoned settlement. As I mentioned in a previous post, the only real concern should probably be the impact such an item would have on the balance or tone of the game. If the GM is fine with the player having an item, then any believable contrivance can introduce the item.
QuoteHardest part for the adventures would be keeping their toys running as spare and consumable parts for pre-fall tech are unlikely to be produced in the post-fall world. Pre-fall guns are probably best handled like magic wands. They require a specialty to operate, have a chance of failure, are rarely found with full charges, and require further specialization and equipment to repurpose incompatible wand charges or recharge from scratch. Pre-fall sport bows make garbage war bows. The draw is too light, as in a foam dart gun is not a varmint hunting air rifle. However, there will be lots of pre-fall components to make excellent crossbows out of.
Yes. Resource management is more important than the logistics of how they get replenished. Cars are going to be exerywhere. Acquiring a working car is not going to be a problem. KEEPING the car working (gasoline, oil, tires, other parts) is where the focus should probably be placed.
I also recommend the Jëorg Sprave youtube channel for tutorials on how to make simple and very powerful slingshots and crossbows from basically junk materials.
QuoteMuch of my own interest lies in how the post-fall world functions out side of the time capsule dungeons as scavenging has diminishing returns and eventually rebuilding is inevitable. A short term example would be shelf stable food; there is only so much to be salvaged before new food has to be grown.
This seems to be tbe general principle behind any post-apoc setting: short-term survival with a long-term goal of generating stablity. The longer the game goes on (i.e. higher levels), the more difficult scavving might become. Game focus would shift to settlement building, crop cultivation, and essentially "tower defense" of the resources the players spent the early game collecting. This can flow in tandem with whatever the ultimate end-goal of the campaign is (i.e., find the cure for X disease, re-establish a functioning government, repel the alien invasion, whatever).
QuoteAccurate depictions of real word constraints is not a requirement of a game, but I prefer not to world build counting on player ignorance and have my world collapse under the slightest unforeseen scrutiny.
Eh, that's probably why it's best not to try to flesh these things out in too much detail. The less you explain to the players, the more they will try to fill in the blanks themselves. Avoid overly-detailed macro explanations; keep the game focused on the here-and-now.
I couldn't agree more.
And the last part? Pure handwavium, that's how you manage these things.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 05, 2022, 01:14:35 AM
And the last part? Pure handwavium, that's how you manage these things.
Pretty much! 8)