When Did CharOp start?

StormBringer · July 24, 2012, 04:59:25 PM

Quote from: Benoist;563881That's not the reason why at our gaming table. The real reason that 90+% of the game time is spent on levels 1-10 is because of the lethality of the game. If you don't fudge the dice or play it "emotionally safe" on the PCs, it's actually pretty hard to reach 5th level in the first place. It's a challenge. And 9th level means you *are* a high level character, for intents and purposes.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;563888Well, that's a big reason too But those times when characters start getting to level 11-14 or so? We're usually ready to play a different character type. And to be honest, it does feel a little too much power for my tastes anyway.

I guess someone should start writing the E6 variant E10.

I always though 6th was kind of an odd choice for a cut-off. I understand the reasoning as they present it, but it applies to 3.x, and based on the assessment by Ryan Dancey. Neither of which automatically discredits it, but I think they are more of an arbitrary decision than thoughtful analysis. I am not saying Mr Dancey is wrong, precisely, but it reads more like the need to find four chunks that fit with an existing theory. The 'tiers' could have just as easily been divided up into levels 1-3, 4-14, 15-25 and 26-36 based on extrapolating the Moldvay/Cook series. Apprentice, Journeyman, Master and Ruler, perhaps.

Sacrosanct · July 24, 2012, 05:05:51 PM

Quote from: StormBringer;563901The 'tiers' could have just as easily been divided up into levels 1-3, 4-14, 15-25 and 26-36 based on extrapolating the Moldvay/Cook series. Apprentice, Journeyman, Master and Ruler, perhaps.

In my AD&D games anyway, level 9-10 is ruler. Most PCs by that time have enough wealth and rep to build their own strongholds.

jibbajibba · July 24, 2012, 05:06:05 PM

Quote from: Melan;563798I would not go so far, but when I finally got my hands on my OD&D set, and realised spells only went up to 5th and 6th level (for Clerics and Magic-Users, respectively), something just clicked. There were the sensible boundaries of magical power.

Yeah i always thought that when casters start getting 7th level and higher they start to overwhelm the rest of the party and make the fighter pretty useless :-)

Hoho......

Sacrosanct · July 24, 2012, 05:18:10 PM

Quote from: jibbajibba;563904Yeah i always thought that when casters start getting 7th level and higher they start to overwhelm the rest of the party and make the fighter pretty useless :-)

Hoho......

Only by players who forget that rule in AD&D that says, "In order to cast spells, the caster must remain virtually motionless, and does not get an AC bonus from Dexterity. Any disruption, even a bump, ruins the spell for good."

StormBringer · July 24, 2012, 06:11:36 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;563903In my AD&D games anyway, level 9-10 is ruler. Most PCs by that time have enough wealth and rep to build their own strongholds.

That seems a bit early to me, but I won't say it's wrong. I would think those levels are for further power consolidation until about 12th, maybe. Of course, if we are talking about 20 levels, 9th or 10th is probably about right.

Which brings up another set of 'tiers': 1-12, 13-24, 25-36. 10th level being the high end of "Normal" would be a good place to finish up the 'temporal power' game and start moving into the 'planar power' part.

RPGPundit · July 25, 2012, 06:48:18 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;563872CharOp started way before D&D. I would play Cowboys and Indians with my older brother, and he's always play this cowboy with a freaking gun that unlimited ammo!

"I got you! I got you! I got you! You're dead!"

I think one has to delineate a difference between "character optimization" and "powergaming". While similar, the latter has certainly been around since the start of the game, while the former only really became possible when an increasing number of options were presented that allowed people to fiddle with and tweak their characters for the sake of making them more "optimal" rather than any actual setting or in-character considerations.

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