The best defense for point buy is "some people like it."

On the other hand, I do indeed still use 3d6 in order, including last Saturday.

And I've only ever had a single person complain about stats.

I can go either way. Because ultimately - stats won't save you from dumb decisions.

But insofar as it helps you imagine your character and/or allows you to model your conception mechanically and lets you play and enjoy the game, have at it.

Most of my players prefer point-buy because it allows them to have what they want. But I always leave random stat-generation as an option if they feel lucky. Of course if they go random - they gotta stick with what they get.

I don't think it needs to be defended. It has its proponents, just like random has.
Me, I rate them at the same level, and prefer lifepath to either.

This again? Ok, once more unto the dice roll

So anyone here want to actually defend 3d6 in order then shuffle(OD&D-BX)? Or r4h3(AD&D)? Or stat array? (4e?) Or point buy? Or no stats at all? Or whatever.

All work and some work better for some players than others.

Some really dont want to play tea leaf reading to get a character or just dont like the sometimes limited range that a roll set allows that time.

Others find it fun to see just what they get and like the challenge of playing different things every time or at least playing the same class with oft wildly different capabilities.

Others want a little control over the random and so point shuffling gives them that sense of control while still enjoying the random. While others prefer the roll and arrange for much the same reason be it 3d6 or r4h3 etc. Freedom of choice combined with the unknown factor.

Point buy allows a player to get the sort of character they want. So of they want to play a magic user they can drop alot of points into intelligence. And often theres some sacrifice elsewhere. It allows for some experimenting and it certainly appeals to random-phobes. (Though those will oft still bitch about any roll.) Some like it as it speeds along chargen. (when you have the right players)

Others dont like it because it tends to generate cookie-cutter characters all with the same dam stat spread. Or min-maxing morons. Or just dithering over where to put points.

Stat array I've had the least experience with and heard the least commentary on. Pros? Cons? So far from what little have seen array style can lend to pretty fast chargen as it cuts out dithering over where to place points and just boils it down to where to place the stats. The con so far seen it it makes for very bland characters and can fall into the same cookie-cutter patterns. But removes some or all of the worst of the min-maxing problems.

Personally I like the roll in order and then point-shuffle method of O and BX. Its also a small factor in Star Frontiers.

Quote from: tenbones;954173ultimately - stats won't save you from dumb decisions.

Yup!

I prefer it, actually.  But then, I'm a new school freak who thinks games should be fun for all involved, not the people who get lucky on stats (and by lucky, I'm not saying all 18's or whatnor, I'm saying numbers that people can work with, like a 14 or some such, of course this is D&D dependent.  I've been the guy in a couple of D&D games in which I couldn't actually play with random because my stats had to be bumped up to be able to QUALIFY for a class.  And another player had two 16 and nothing under 12.)

Quote from: JeremyR;954114I'm skeptical anyone really grew up with OD&D, since OD&D lasted a grand total of 4 years before being replaced by AD&D, and even then it wasn't a national thing until '76 or so and before that was mostly restricted to college students in a handful of colleges.

Well, my group played OD&D for a while before AD&D came out, but AD&D took 3 years to fully be released and even when it did come out our group splintered so that half of the time we played OD&D (when I was DM) and half of the time AD&D (when my buddy ran a game). I'd say over the years I've run 10x the amount of OD&D as I have AD&D and probably played twice as much. Forty years later and I still play (and run) a lot more OD&D than I do AD&D. To me, that's growing up with the game, and I'm not sure why you feel the urge to discredit folks who like OD&D more.

Quote from: RPGPundit;954071So, anyone here want to actually defend point-buy character creation over random rolls?

No defense needed. People like them for different reasons. Random roll can't do what point creation does, point buy cant do what random creation does.

Have a character concept for the game you want to translate into game terms? Random roll is shit at that.
Want to get on with playing and discover the character over the course of the game? Point buy is shit for that.

Want to make a character without a concept and discover his life story before the game begun, so you could then play it out? Both point-buy and random rolls are comparatively shit for that, when compared to lifepaths;).

Hey, anyone wants to defend the decision not to use lifepaths, or not every single time:D?

Quote from: RPGPundit;954071So, anyone here want to actually defend point-buy character creation over random rolls?

You'll find people who will defend Hitler, so probably, yeah.

Quote from: CRKrueger;954190You'll find people who will defend Hitler, so probably, yeah.

Hope you're not implying the two are analogous in some way;).

Quote from: AsenRG;954191Hope you're not implying the two are analogous in some way;).

It's Krueger, he probably is.

Quote from: AsenRG;954191Hope you're not implying the two are analogous in some way;).

Other than being objectively wrong-headed and a sign of either mental imbalance or pure evil, no.

I just figured why bother with the One True Way back and forth, and just to straight to Godwin.

Quote from: CRKrueger;954194Other than being objectively wrong-headed and a sign of either mental imbalance or pure evil, no.

Other than that, of course:p!

QuoteI just figured why bother with the One True Way back and forth, and just to straight to Godwin.

It worked well. Or at least, it was funny in my book;).

I'll use point buy when I've got a really specific PC concept... and I generally prefer skill-based games, and purely random rolling skills usually ends up a bit odd... but I still like a bit of random chargen... so, like for Magic World, I roll random 3D6 in order for stat scores and then use point buy for the skills, based on what I can read into the random stats.