TheRPGSite

Greetings!

I had a recent discussion with one of my friends who used to play a lot of D&D and is currently watching a youtube D&D game where all the players are male but all or almost all of their characters are female and we discussed that the game lacked a lot of roleplaying since the players were basically playing dudes with tits, acting no different than if the characters were male or female.

I think a character's outlook, the way he or she sees the world and acts should be informed by his or her upbringing, culture and life experiences. The life experience of a man is not the same as the life experience of a woman, even if they both come from the same background.

In this sense, even though I like the idea of roleplaying a character that is not necessarily similar to who you are, I find the idea of how I would roleplay a woman difficult. I have never done this, as all my characters have been male. And thinking on it, I am not sure if I could really wrap my head around playing as a female character. This is also assuming a true intention to roleplay as a character of the opposite gender and not just using it as an excuse to act a whore or any other weird sexual fantasies, since nobody wants to play in those games anyways.

Personally, the idea doesn't really appeal to me and is not something I see myself ever doing, but I found that is very popular, more so than I would have imagined and not really something recent.

So, what say you? Have you done this? Do you allow this in your games? Let me know what you think about it!

Does the GM only portray characters of one sex?  No?  Then there's your answer.

I don't care. I've played both for different reasons at different times. Not a big deal.

Now if someone wanted to play a different gender just so they could grandstand about it to make sort of political or social point. They're no longer welcome at my table.

I actually only played a lady for the first time recently.  The funny thing is that I chose to do this because the group never gets any female players or characters and I thought having a chick in the party would mix things up a bit. Fast forward a few weeks, the player lineup has changed and I found myself in a party of five male players, four of which were playing women. That was a bit weird. 

If you take it seriously and try to put yourself in the mind of the opposite sex, it's an interesting enough experience. Priorities change and you might end up seeing some different approaches to roleplaying situations. I did tire of it pretty quickly, though. One of the other players in the group was very clearly playing "a dude with tits", which I found mildly annoying. The character was basically lesbian Conan, complete with rescuing buxom princesses and carrying them off. Far be it from me to harsh another player's mellow, but it does kind of defeat the purpose. Also the DM repeatedly used the female characters as an excuse to put the group under threat of enslavement and implied rape, which was an annoyance all on its own.

In my own games I always let players play whatever sex they want. I don't see why people get hung up about it, and as mentioned above, it's sometimes the only way you're going to get any female PCs. Fortunately, I haven't yet had anyone use it as an excuse to play a dumb bimbo or anything like that.

I allow players in my game to play a character of an opposite sex as long as they don't get stupid with it.  If they get stupid (Hasn't happened yet) then I will kill the character and not let them make a character of the opposite sex.

I have played characters of an opposite sex.  Didn't do anything stupid, basically played female characters who basically ignored the male characters for everything except whatever the game is about.

I'm not an elf, a magic-user, a commando or an astronaut, either, but I've played all those in a roleplaying game.

And as GM I've played everything. I don't suddenly acquire brilliant roleplaying abilities simply because I put up a GM screen and consult my notes. I'm just as awful or awesome as I was before when I just played.

I think maturity levels come into it.  When I was running games for fourteen year old boys, I wound up banning female characters for some reason.  On the other hand there was a guy in his late thirties who made one lesbian, stripper, ninja after another.  So there's that.

But yeah, most reasonably mature people can play the opposite gender if they wanna.  Hell nowadays you have to roll a d30 or something.

Yes, and being in UK I don't think this has ever been an issue in in-person games. I guess us Brits are kinda gender fluid.  ;D I've occasionally seen Americans say people shouldn't play opposite sex. And I had a right wing Norwegian player who didn't think female adventurers should be allowed, not sure what he felt about the female players - probably that they should be playing male PCs.

I often see male and female players play Red Sonja types, never had a problem with that. Haven't really seen a male player play a sex crazed bimbo since I & the player were 14/15. In the games I'm running right now:

5e D&D Basic: 4 players 3m 1f, all playing same-sex characters. No romance or sex.

Cyberpunk Red: 7 players 6m 1f. 2 of the men are playing female characters, other 5 PCs are same-sex. One of those two is a lesbian Corporate exec but the player chose a rather unattractive pic for the PC, dresses conservatively, and while she fantasises about seducing some of the female NPCs she's never yet made a move on any of them, so I wouldn't really call her a 'lesbian stripper ninja' PC. The other one is straight but seems uninterested in sex & relationships, grieving the loss of her child a year ago. The player did suggest that one of her NPC female friends had a crush on her, which I went with. The female player's female PC is straight and fancies one or two of the male NPCs, nothing has happened yet. Of the 4 male PCs, one has a gf, one has a harem of ladies, two are unattached.

I mostly GM but maybe 1/3 of my PCs are female. I was playing a female pregen Consuela diSiestro, Estalian Duelist, in a WHFRP campaign recently. Cool character, not a lesbian. She did have sex once, with a city guard she took a liking to after a tough adventure. Stress relief rather than anything serious; I did get a few comments from the other players.  ;D Some female players with female PCs will often do similar (Greeba the Half-Orc in my FR game was slightly notorious) & I don't think that was out of line. And of course my female NPCs run the gamut of personalities. In Cyberpunk Red recently I've been playing NPC Scarlet Harris (Wrecker), a sophomore Poli-Sci/Journalism student Zoner Antifa child of privilege (daughter of a Network 54 Vice President) who was interrogated by the PCs, getting into her head was quite interesting.  ;D

In my Avatar that's a pic the player of Mover, Brazilian Solo, did of Mover with Smoke, a young NPC Fixer, lighting up after a mission. Smoke kinda fancies Mover, and I think vice versa, but neither is looking for a relationship. Definitely not Lesbian, not a Stripper, not a Ninja.  ;D

I voted "Yes, Depends".
I'm sure we've all known the guy playing the female character for cheap titilation. We don't need that at the table.
For the most part, I don't care.

None of the answers are a good fit for me or my group, so you'll get a custom response and no vote in the poll, sorry.

The answer in my case is "No opposit gender characters", but simply because:

• I'm the forever GM of a fairly close knit group that has played together for decades
• I know who I'm playing with and what will happen (i.e: a fucking mess) if I'll allow this

For other groups, the answer is a solid "maybe": if the character concept is good and the character can be solidly and plausibly roleplayed I'll allow it, otherwise no.

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 03, 2024, 11:09:16 PM
The character was basically lesbian Conan, complete with rescuing buxom princesses and carrying them off.

For a certain kind of game, that sounds awesome.  ;D ;D

I mostly see it only in playing over text, which makes it easier to roleplay the character since you can just narrate and describe. It has been fine there. In person it never has come up.

It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

Don't care as long as they are not just using it as an excuse to be an arse at the table. Otherwise fine.

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

I agree with this point of view.

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

Greetings!

Yeah, I agree with you entirely, brother!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Our online Traveller group has a guy playing a female human, and my wife playing a male Aslan.

We forget sometimes the player isn't the sex of their character, which can be really funny. Not having cameras on during play probably contributes to it. The male is such a good voice actor and plays in-character and my wife plays in-character so well, I think it would not matter.

For those that don't know,  Aslan have sex-based division of labor in their society. Finance, management, and science, engineering, and mechanics not directly related to war are all "women's work".

i would not role play a character of the opposite sex (don't give a damn about gender - sorry, not sorry) that i am myself - for the simple reason that i have no personal experience to facilitate that. i have only been male in my life, and thus only know how that particular biological trait shapes ones inner self and expression thereof. but, if other people want to, i've no problem with that - provided they can make it work.

I play characters of the opposite sex any time I envision a female character. A couple of my players do (most stick to their own sex).

I don't feel like I need experience being female to play a female character since gender roles aren't a meaningful part of the games I play. My "maleness" doesn't come up when playing a man either.

I've also played black and asian characters, despite being neither of those. Seems no different to me.

Sure, the characters get mis-gendered at the table occasionally, but so what?

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

What you are describing is a player problem, not a problem with playing the opposite sex.    Could there be problem if a character is human and another player is playing an elf and the character wants to know what its like to have sex with an elf?  Yeah, that could go wrong.

Its up to the GM to prevent problems and let the player who wants to play a different sex know that if they cause problems or do something weird, they have to make another character.

I don't get gamers.  Playing an Elf or an Orc? No problem.  Playing someone of another sex? Are you kidding me?

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2024, 10:39:08 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AM
It's rarely a good idea.

And so often, half the table forgets that Tim is playing Baroness Tatiana and Paula is playing Pardok of the Axe...because Tim looks like Tim and Paula has boobies. 

It's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

As with everything, know your group and make decisions accordingly.

What you are describing is a player problem, not a problem with playing the opposite sex.    Could there be problem if a character is human and another player is playing an elf and the character wants to know what its like to have sex with an elf?  Yeah, that could go wrong.

Its up to the GM to prevent problems and let the player who wants to play a different sex know that if they cause problems or do something weird, they have to make another character.

I don't get gamers.  Playing an Elf or an Orc? No problem.  Playing someone of another sex? Are you kidding me?

Greetings!

Well, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I usually GM, so I have to do both by default. This means I usually give it a pass for players as long as they're not going lolicon squick.

When I get to play it entirely depends on concept and classes needed to fill any gaps in the party;

- If I'm rolling up a warrior, it'll be a man.

- If its someone relying on mental or social stats without magic, it'll be a man.

- If its a world full of superheroes, it'll be a man (though if it has rules for sidekicks, I'll probably give them a female tech support/overwatch-type character because sidekicks are usually a very point efficient way to get more mundane skills covered and I like the Yin-Yang/Mind-Body/Male-Female dichotomy conceptually).

- If its someone using magic in a world where magic is exceptionally powerful and has few/no downsides, I generally make it a woman.

I forget who said it, but I think I internalized the thinking which said that when you give men supernatural powers in stories they either need some sort of handicap (ex. a vampire protagonist who burns in sunlight, a frail elderly wizard) or to establish them at the bottom tier of even more powerful supernatural beings (ex. Harry Potter as a 1st year, a super in a world of supers). By contrast, giving women supernatural powers rarely requires this as readers subconsciously know they need that power just to hold their own physically against well-armed men and monsters.

So D&D where magic has no real downsides, if I have to roll up a spellcaster (Bard excepted; they have the 'subtle magics that might be more skill than power' exception and often have to solve physical violence with blades and armor) they are invariably women... their access to magic is the reason they can hold their own with warriors and others physically stronger than them. If I'm rolling just about anything else, it'll be a man.

Nobody cares. It's a game.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AMWell, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

I've never experienced any issues with that though admittedly most of the time it's a rare occurence even without any tactic restriction.  I've played with male players who played female characters (including 8 levels of female dwarf paladin myself during 3/3.5 as my only ever female character in 30+ years of gaming) and there was never an awkward moment.  Maybe it's because none of us in the multiple groups I'm referring to ever wanted romance in our roleplaying as that would seem to be the most potentially troublesome aspect.  We didn't need any "safety tools" or arbitrary woke restrictions on character creation to protect our feelings.  In my opinion, people who restrict other players by limiting that aspect of character creation are no better than the purple haired side shaved rainbow weirdos screeching about cultural appropriation in pop culture; they're just two sides of the same coin.   If an INDIVIDUAL proves to be not mature enough to play a certain character type then you sit down that one person and either ask them to change (themselves or the character) or leave; you don't collectively pre-punish everyone.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AM

Well, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

My experience is that the more mixed the sexes of the players, the more likely a player will be able to play a character of the opposite sex with little to no issues.  Certainly no worse than an elf or a dwarf or whatever, and often better than the more exotic options.  Of course, in a roughly equally mixed group of players, there is a reduced inclination to play opposites, since the party already has a good mix by default. 

In fact, most of my players, most of the time, will stick with the same sex when playing humans.  It's just easier in many cases, and it makes no difference to the mechanics in the systems I tend to run.  Where I see more flips is in races.  It's rare for anyone in our group to play a female dwarf, for example.  In any given campaign, I'm more likely to see a female elf (male or female player) than some of the other races.

The last factor is age.  For standard starting character ages, young adults to barely full adult, I'll see less flipping.  Very young or middle aged characters, much more likely.

But then, I only play with people that don't abuse those kind of options.  Even the teens that have played in our groups from time to time don't do the stupid stuff.

Edit:  Whenever I have asked a player why they decided to play a character a certain way, the answer is invariably something akin to "It just seemed right for some reason."  Sex of the character is just one aspect of that.  Name, personality, hair color, race, and so on, they had an image that grew in their mind and went with it.

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 04, 2024, 04:29:53 AMIt's always funny to see who does a worse job. Men pretending to be women or women pretending to be men. Both do a FAR better job pretending to be elves and orcs.

At the game store there are some men who want to play female characters, usually with high squeaky voices and reinforcing bad stereotypes. In practice I find that this only insults the females at the table, and they don't want to come back.

My games are pretty much gender neutral in that even with historical campaigns I don't give advantages or disadvantages to being a particular gender or ethnicity. (I don't mind giving stat bonuses for fantasy "races" like elves and orcs, however.) Play what you want, but don't be insulting.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AM
As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

Lots of players will role-play badly. There's no solving that. Gentle encouragement can help, as can just saying no to dumb shit -- but it doesn't make their portrayal good. In my experience, the sort of player who will role-play the opposite sex badly will also role-play their own sex badly.

But as Jason Coplen said, it's just a game. If the player doesn't win any Oscars for their portrayal, they still got to roll some dice, kill some monsters, and have fun. If I don't want sexual hijinx in the game, then I ban the hijinx regardless of the sex of the player. Sometimes it can be fun for players to be a Conan-like womanizing barbarian. I remember running the D20 Conan RPG years ago, and a female player got really into her male character and seducing women, and it was good fun. If it was out of tone for the game, then I'd block it for both male and female players.

Quote from: SHARK on April 04, 2024, 10:50:16 AM
Greetings!

Well, yeah, GhostNinja. "In Theory"--it shouldn't be a problem. However, in reality, it really does open the door to lots of stupid. Even otherwise mature and reasonable players can blow it up playing someone of the opposite sex in ways that are sometimes expected, but also in unexpected ways. From whatever dynamics, it is a pretty wise shortcut to simply say NO. As Spinachcat said, proceed cautiously, knowing your group and table--but NO is a solid policy.

I have played with a sufficient number of gamers through the years to absolutely acknowledge the wisdom in such a policy as Spinachcat describes. Men and women alike, don't usually play members of the opposite sex very well at all. And yeah, while playing Orcs and Elves is standard policy, many gamers also fuck up playing those kinds of characters as well. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Funny, I have been in games and have run games where people have played characters of opposite sexes and there haven't been a problem.  For me, it's allowed until it gets abused and so far, no one has abused it.   If it becomes a problem, its a player issue, not an issue of playing the opposite sex.  I will just get rid of the player and they will be replaced in less then 24 hours.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on April 04, 2024, 12:36:52 PM
Nobody cares. It's a game.

Yeah I agree.  Don't know why it's such an issue. 

It honestly depends on the maturity of the players.  I've played female characters, and have DM'ed players who have played female characters.  It hasn't been an issue for decades. 

(As in, when I was in my 20's I had the occasional jackass who played a female character who would come on to everyone or who would try to play a female "Asian paladin stripper" or whatever... ugh...!) 

I usually play male characters, though occasionally a certain concept works better with a female character.  So that's what I'll play.  I have five male players and one GM in my group (me).  One is playing a female character.  No big deal.  No issues. 

Quote from: Klava on April 04, 2024, 10:13:31 AM
i would not role play a character of the opposite sex (don't give a damn about gender - sorry, not sorry) that i am myself - for the simple reason that i have no personal experience to facilitate that. i have only been male in my life, and thus only know how that particular biological trait shapes ones inner self and expression thereof. but, if other people want to, i've no problem with that - provided they can make it work.

So I guess no freakin' monotreme dragonborns raised in a world with no Earth religions for you, then.

Anyway, funny story. I came out of this 3.0 game session, and someone's then-girlfriend was like, "It's so funny, you can always tell when a man is playing a female character." And the player was like, "What do you mean?" And she was like, "Oh, you know, the really effeminate voice. Just the way they act." And the player said, "Ok, I guess. Why are you bringing this up?" And she was like, "You. The way you were playing your character in the game." And the player was like, "My character is male." The character was some bard dandy type. LOL, good times.

It's not been a big problem in the games I've played in. Nobody was playing a stereotype, and we rarely had interparty romance.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic on April 04, 2024, 03:57:17 AM
I mostly see it only in playing over text, which makes it easier to roleplay the character since you can just narrate and describe. It has been fine there. In person it never has come up.

Same here. Its alot easier in text play.

I allow it as long as the player is not being annoying or pushing some agenda.

Quote from: Lurkndog on April 04, 2024, 10:20:34 PM
It's not been a big problem in the games I've played in. Nobody was playing a stereotype, and we rarely had interparty romance.

I've only seen intraparty romance with male PC/male player & female PC/female player. And this DEFINITELY has the potential for 'issues', as players mix up in-game and IRL feelings. I had one 5e group with two such pairings, the players got way too into playing Doctors & Nurses and flatly refused to engage with an actual threat of an orc invasion, the group collapsed and I ended up banning most of the players.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2024, 10:39:08 AM
I don't get gamers.  Playing an Elf or an Orc? No problem.  Playing someone of another sex? Are you kidding me?

Everyone has met men and women. Nobody has met an Elf or an Orc.

AKA, it is easier for people to roleplay the unrealistic rather than the realistic ESPECIALLY because there are all sorts of biological and social tensions and expectations that exist between humans of opposite sexes and these are known to all at the table.

But knowing these aspects actually makes accurate portrayal harder, not easier.

I think that only very experienced players should try to play a person of the opposite sex. The same holds true for playing other races/species. They should be very alien, but most players just treat them as skinsuits.

Quote from: Spinachcat on April 05, 2024, 04:41:46 AM
AKA, it is easier for people to roleplay the unrealistic rather than the realistic ESPECIALLY because there are all sorts of biological and social tensions and expectations that exist between humans of opposite sexes and these are known to all at the table.

But knowing these aspects actually makes accurate portrayal harder, not easier.

I've noticed that men of some cultures, notably USA-ians, treat women as mysterious, unknowable creatures. Whereas women of all cultures seem to treat men as simple, easily understood creatures.

Both are wrong.

Quote from: S'mon on April 05, 2024, 05:58:56 AM
I've noticed that men of some cultures, notably USA-ians, treat women as mysterious, unknowable creatures. Whereas women of all cultures seem to treat men as simple, easily understood creatures.

Both are wrong.

I think in both cases, you just need to do some work on understanding the psychology. Men think women are unknowable, women think there's nothing they need to know. Both are wrong, but it's far from impossible to get a decent grasp on how the other half typically thinks. Also of course there are more male-brained women and more female-brained men. They are not typical; but women with more masculine type brains do tend to be over-represented in the more 'adventurer' type professions IRL, like police and military. So if anything I think the male player has a slight advantage here. A corollary female advantage though is that female RPG nerds also tend to be a bit more male brained than the average woman, making it less of a stretch for them to play male PCs.

Most of the complaints about M2F trans-gender play seem to relate to pretty obvious expressions of Autogynephilia, the male player is getting a sexual kick out of playing his Lesbian Stripper Ninja. As the last few years have amply demonstrated, Autogynephilia is icky.  ;D

Quote from: S'mon on April 05, 2024, 05:58:56 AM
I've noticed that men of some cultures, notably USA-ians, treat women as mysterious, unknowable creatures. Whereas women of all cultures seem to treat men as simple, easily understood creatures.

Both are wrong.

Nah. It's pretty accurate. I've been married for 20 years and have two teen daughters. I'm baffled daily by what is going on in their heads. I'm simple, let me have my cup of coffee and work in my man cave, occasionally say thank you when I fix something or do heavy lifting around the house and I'm happy.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/04/e3/5404e30540b6e6a24039326764632831.jpg)

Quote from: Thor's Nads on April 05, 2024, 06:06:43 AM
Nah. It's pretty accurate. I've been married for 20 years and have two teen daughters. I'm baffled daily by what is going on in their heads. I'm simple, let me have my cup of coffee and work in my man cave, occasionally say thank you when I fix something or do heavy lifting around the house and I'm happy.

My friend Matt has three daughters and he thinks the same as you.

I guess I used to be almost equally baffled. But there are some great resources out there for understanding female psychology these days. I found Alexander Grace on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVlisg4TUhk very helpful, got me a 6 month or so relationship with an insanely beautiful woman, way way out of my league.  :D

Quote from: Rhymer88 on April 05, 2024, 04:59:15 AM
I think that only very experienced players should try to play a person of the opposite sex. The same holds true for playing other races/species. They should be very alien, but most players just treat them as skinsuits.

Eh. The same could be said of portraying humans from a quasi-medieval magical fantasy culture.

We're playing pretend, not trying to make some definitive exploration of fictional people and cultures.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 05, 2024, 06:55:50 AM

Quote from: Rhymer88 on April 05, 2024, 04:59:15 AM
I think that only very experienced players should try to play a person of the opposite sex. The same holds true for playing other races/species. They should be very alien, but most players just treat them as skinsuits.

Eh. The same could be said of portraying humans from a quasi-medieval magical fantasy culture.

We're playing pretend, not trying to make some definitive exploration of fictional people and cultures.

It depends on the setting. It obviously doesn't matter in gonzo settings like Gamma World.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on April 05, 2024, 07:06:29 AM
It depends on the setting. It obviously doesn't matter in gonzo settings like Gamma World.

Well, yeah, if you're playing a quasi-historical game set in Henry VIII's court, that's going to require a little more investment by the players in role-playing their characters appropriately.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2024, 10:39:08 AM
I don't get gamers.  Playing an Elf or an Orc? No problem.  Playing someone of another sex? Are you kidding me?

for me, it's not about willingness, but rather ability. elves and orcs are completely fictional magical creatures, so most would probably agree that as long as one's able to stay within the fiction of the game just about any kind of role playing goes with those.
sexual traits exist in real world, so some additional expectations are pretty much inevitable when one's to include those in their role playing, and so real life experience is useful and, i'd argue, preferable in this case. unless of course special effort is made to completely divorce those traits from real world via game fiction - but that would just make the whole sex schtick pointless imo.

that said, i do agree with many here, it's not a big deal - anyone who's capable of making it work will get nothing but praise from me.

I have played with a few people who would never play a character of the opposite sex.  They don't feel that they can handle it well enough to suit themselves, let alone the rest of the group.  If someone says that, I'm not going to argue with them.  Self awareness is a good thing.  If it's overstating the case, or maybe chronic shyness, it's not like failing to do so is causing the slightest bit of trouble for anyone.   At most, I'll file it away to notice if they show some signs of changing their minds. 

I will go so far as to say that certain roles are outside the competence of certain players, opposite sex merely being an obvious case.  I'd rather leave it up to self-aware players to police that themselves, and leave the rest of the players out of the game entirely.

Many men like capable and confident women. It's widely known that confidence is attractive. Women players are not necessarily going to play capable and confident women characters all the time. So, if a man wants to see that kind of character, he might as well play one himself. Is it a fantasy? Sure, just like the rest of the game is a fantasy. Anyway, that's my theory.

Also, I think the differences between male and female characters should be less pronounced anyway because both share the commonality of being adventurers. Differences between the sexes will be more apparent if we had, say, concubine and construction worker characters. But since everyone's an adventure, the differences get smoothed over somewhat.

And yeah, as others have mentioned, the GM plays both sexes, so playing the opposite sex should be no big deal if the table has a bit of maturity or agrees on what's off limits.

That's kind of a funny thing.  As a GM, I have played dozens of women. As a PC, that dropped to zero for any group.  Later, when I migrated to mainly solo play, that opened up genres and roles that never would have flown with any of the groups that I was in.

A quick survey of the last couple dozen or so games I have played... 

Four had female protagonists: Trollbabe (with Barbarian Prince), Magical Burst (beta), Magical Fury, and FAE (post-apocalypse kaiju pilots)
Five of them have a mixed party: Once More Into the Void, The Anomaly, The Trouble with Rose, Into the Chasm, and Fabula Ultima
And the remainder were all male protagonists.

Opposite gender? Opposite to what? Because nowadays there are eleventy genders, which opposes which?

I'm largely indifferent. Let people do what they want, although I do agree with the old "Fantasy Role Playing Gamer's Bible" that gender bending is often bad taste.

Also as a side note, the only gamer I played with who frequently played the opposite sex turned out to be trans (or presents as one now at least). I never thought he came across as a woman, but more insecure in his masculinity, but what do I know.

I tend to play male characters when I do get the chance to play, although one of my first characters was a female elven archer (inspired by the Larry Elmore Dragonslayers artwork IIRC). Pretty much every other character I've played was male though.

As many others have said, GMs have to roleplay all sorts of NPCs, and despite some wishing otherwise, GMs are not a special breed with roleplay super powers.

Most RPG creeps will play the same no matter what the sex, race, or nature of their PC.

To play something that I'm not is the pinnacle of Role-Playing.  To prevent myself and players from doing anything less means culling a significant amount of options at the gaming table.

If your table can handle it, do it. Whomever is the DM needs to be the Adult to tell when people step over the line in being an asshat and causing a problem.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on April 16, 2024, 06:23:47 AMOpposite gender? Opposite to what? Because nowadays there are eleventy genders, which opposes which?

Opposite to your own gender, obviously.

There's only male and female.

Quote from: DonJonKeeper on April 16, 2024, 12:23:47 PMI tend to play male characters when I do get the chance to play, although one of my first characters was a female elven archer (inspired by the Larry Elmore Dragonslayers artwork IIRC). Pretty much every other character I've played was male though.

As many others have said, GMs have to roleplay all sorts of NPCs, and despite some wishing otherwise, GMs are not a special breed with roleplay super powers.

Most RPG creeps will play the same no matter what the sex, race, or nature of their PC.

I've heard the argument but to me its not the same.

An NPC is "scene dressing". You don't really make decisions that drive the game as an NPC, or at least you shouldn't.

So, the GM is roleplaying an NPC that may or may not appear ever again in the game. Which is completely different to a player that will play with the same character for an undetermined amount of time.

If you read some stories, some people have played the same character for years, sometimes even decades.


Ideally, the GM should try to get into the mindset of a prominent or important NPC of the opposite gender and make decisions accordingly, but then again by definition the GM will always be twice removed from the NPCs compared to the Players and their characters.

"You can play what you want" is closest to my position, but with the caveat that it has to fit the setting and the game.  I've had lots male and female players play both their own and opposite gender characters and its never been a big deal.  Probably they often got the psychology of opposite genders characters wrong, but seriously, who cares?  We're here to kill orcs and take their stuff, not explore the nuances of psychology.

Quote from: Cipher on April 16, 2024, 02:48:39 PM

Quote from: DonJonKeeper on April 16, 2024, 12:23:47 PMI tend to play male characters when I do get the chance to play, although one of my first characters was a female elven archer (inspired by the Larry Elmore Dragonslayers artwork IIRC). Pretty much every other character I've played was male though.

As many others have said, GMs have to roleplay all sorts of NPCs, and despite some wishing otherwise, GMs are not a special breed with roleplay super powers.

Most RPG creeps will play the same no matter what the sex, race, or nature of their PC.

I've heard the argument but to me its not the same.

An NPC is "scene dressing". You don't really make decisions that drive the game as an NPC, or at least you shouldn't.

So, the GM is roleplaying an NPC that may or may not appear ever again in the game. Which is completely different to a player that will play with the same character for an undetermined amount of time.

If you read some stories, some people have played the same character for years, sometimes even decades.


Ideally, the GM should try to get into the mindset of a prominent or important NPC of the opposite gender and make decisions accordingly, but then again by definition the GM will always be twice removed from the NPCs compared to the Players and their characters.

I see your point.

I think the crux of this thread is about the dissonance created when sat at the table and the player doesn't match the character, which comes more to the forefront with the sex of the PC than their race?

Stereotyped behaviours of how the player perceives a character of that sex should behave, while almost completely ignoring how an elf or dwarf may view things in a different way?

I've done this once, back in the 80s.  Of course, we weren't being stupid about it, nor were we getting into sexual situations.  We were doing adventures and heroics and things.  The question wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in the days before the woke invasion.

It's a game. If everyone involved is having fun, you're doing it right.

Quote from: DonJonKeeper on April 17, 2024, 04:15:18 AM

Quote from: Cipher on April 16, 2024, 02:48:39 PM

Quote from: DonJonKeeper on April 16, 2024, 12:23:47 PMI tend to play male characters when I do get the chance to play, although one of my first characters was a female elven archer (inspired by the Larry Elmore Dragonslayers artwork IIRC). Pretty much every other character I've played was male though.

As many others have said, GMs have to roleplay all sorts of NPCs, and despite some wishing otherwise, GMs are not a special breed with roleplay super powers.

Most RPG creeps will play the same no matter what the sex, race, or nature of their PC.

I've heard the argument but to me its not the same.

An NPC is "scene dressing". You don't really make decisions that drive the game as an NPC, or at least you shouldn't.

So, the GM is roleplaying an NPC that may or may not appear ever again in the game. Which is completely different to a player that will play with the same character for an undetermined amount of time.

If you read some stories, some people have played the same character for years, sometimes even decades.


Ideally, the GM should try to get into the mindset of a prominent or important NPC of the opposite gender and make decisions accordingly, but then again by definition the GM will always be twice removed from the NPCs compared to the Players and their characters.

I see your point.

I think the crux of this thread is about the dissonance created when sat at the table and the player doesn't match the character, which comes more to the forefront with the sex of the PC than their race?

Stereotyped behaviours of how the player perceives a character of that sex should behave, while almost completely ignoring how an elf or dwarf may view things in a different way?

I think the difference is that, specially with D&D, non-humanoids are very close to humanoids anyways.

How different is dwarf culture from a human culture that loves bear, stoneworking, metalworking, axes and hammers, tradition and honor?

How different is an orc culture from a human culture that is savage, tribal, competitive, might makes right, fearless and ruthless?


D&D has never created playable species with enough lore and nuance to actually make them alien to the human experience.

So, I think its easier to imagine yourself (as a man) having grown up in a culture like the orcs that I described above and then use that as a baseline for the character. So maybe the character is more evil than you are, and ruthless in ways you would never be, but you can imagine how that change the orc character's mindset because you can imagine that kind of culture since is not completely alien to our own.

It's the rubberhead aliens Star Wars did, where an alien culture is basically like a human culture with some minor differences. That's why its simple.

Yes, your specific homebrew setting is not bound to follow this, but lets be honest, in core D&D has never presented other humanoids as truly alien, and they always have been human-like. To the tune of being called "races" instead of "species" and even able to breed with humans, like half-elves and half-orcs.

I've never played a game where all of the players roleplayed languages before, so I've never had players play different genders (who would want "neuter," anyway?).  Many of my players play different sexes than they are in real life, and it's never caused a problem.  Of course, we don't do romance, nor are we looking to make political statements (so the king doesn't look at the female adventurers and say, "Ewww, what's an icky girl doing in here?  Get thee to the kitchen, wench!").  In our settings, competence is what matters most.  So if a chick strolls in carrying a dragon's head, nobody asks her to make a sandwich...

There was a player in past games that I wouldn't allow to play female characters except for when we played Macho Women With Guns. Because he was such a rampant mysogynist.

Quote from: Cipher on April 17, 2024, 07:50:13 PM

Quote from: DonJonKeeper on April 17, 2024, 04:15:18 AM

Quote from: Cipher on April 16, 2024, 02:48:39 PM

Quote from: DonJonKeeper on April 16, 2024, 12:23:47 PMI tend to play male characters when I do get the chance to play, although one of my first characters was a female elven archer (inspired by the Larry Elmore Dragonslayers artwork IIRC). Pretty much every other character I've played was male though.

As many others have said, GMs have to roleplay all sorts of NPCs, and despite some wishing otherwise, GMs are not a special breed with roleplay super powers.

Most RPG creeps will play the same no matter what the sex, race, or nature of their PC.

I've heard the argument but to me its not the same.

An NPC is "scene dressing". You don't really make decisions that drive the game as an NPC, or at least you shouldn't.

So, the GM is roleplaying an NPC that may or may not appear ever again in the game. Which is completely different to a player that will play with the same character for an undetermined amount of time.

If you read some stories, some people have played the same character for years, sometimes even decades.


Ideally, the GM should try to get into the mindset of a prominent or important NPC of the opposite gender and make decisions accordingly, but then again by definition the GM will always be twice removed from the NPCs compared to the Players and their characters.

I see your point.

I think the crux of this thread is about the dissonance created when sat at the table and the player doesn't match the character, which comes more to the forefront with the sex of the PC than their race?

Stereotyped behaviours of how the player perceives a character of that sex should behave, while almost completely ignoring how an elf or dwarf may view things in a different way?

I think the difference is that, specially with D&D, non-humanoids are very close to humanoids anyways.

How different is dwarf culture from a human culture that loves bear, stoneworking, metalworking, axes and hammers, tradition and honor?

How different is an orc culture from a human culture that is savage, tribal, competitive, might makes right, fearless and ruthless?


D&D has never created playable species with enough lore and nuance to actually make them alien to the human experience.

So, I think its easier to imagine yourself (as a man) having grown up in a culture like the orcs that I described above and then use that as a baseline for the character. So maybe the character is more evil than you are, and ruthless in ways you would never be, but you can imagine how that change the orc character's mindset because you can imagine that kind of culture since is not completely alien to our own.

It's the rubberhead aliens Star Wars did, where an alien culture is basically like a human culture with some minor differences. That's why its simple.

Yes, your specific homebrew setting is not bound to follow this, but lets be honest, in core D&D has never presented other humanoids as truly alien, and they always have been human-like. To the tune of being called "races" instead of "species" and even able to breed with humans, like half-elves and half-orcs.

What about players that play different races (e.g., a white player playing a black character) as opposed to different sexes? Would this also cause you the dissonance you mention?

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 18, 2024, 11:55:23 PMWhat about players that play different races (e.g., a white player playing a black character) as opposed to different sexes? Would this also cause you the dissonance you mention?

For some players, maybe? For me, no.

I don't have an issue with a player playing any option available, however badly.

Clichéd portrayals (ironic or otherwise) can be fun for some, offensive to others. In the end it's down to each table to moderate what suits them in their own private game right?

I think that The Gamer's: Dorkness Rising (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gamers:_Dorkness_Rising) covers this cross gender play quite well.

In my experience about half of players can manage roleplaying the opposite sex just fine and the other half are better controlled with GM-side cruel irony than with hard bans.

Also, I just put a blank on the character sheet for players to fill in for sex or gender. Sure, the LGBTQIA +++ community is in the wrong for telling us there are 72 genders (which basically translates to we have no clue and are making crap up), but Session Zero character creation is not a great place to be having that conversation. Forcing GMs to have it right when they're trying to start a game up would be putting the cart before the horse.