Ceased to invite one guy because he aggravates the other players with IC bullshit, and a couple others because of drama away from the gaming table (I game with friends and we hang out away from the game table a lot). But I don't recall kicking anyone out during a game.

I've never actually run players off, though one time I sorta nudged some folks away.

We were playing 4e and a semi-friend (we'd gamed at the shop a few times) and his wife just showed up out of the blue to play. They had characters (level 3ish? It was close enough), but were smashed, and brought a case of beers with them. They were, uh, not fun at the table.

They left their beers behind, and I "reminded" everyone that there's a "no drinking" rule on game night for a reason. They never came back after that.

I forgot about the guy that kept showing off nude selfies of his wife. We sent him packing. A year and a half was all we could take.

Usually the players I've had that don't fit in or are disruptive tend to disappear without any need of being chased off. I vet new players before even inviting them for a session - meeting them at a local coffee shop - so the freaks or the obnoxious don't get invited to my home.

The last time I had a disruptive player was around 2003. He looked down his nose at gamers that didn't meet his level of roleplaying skills - disliking newbie gamers; and, he had the tendency to create characters that didn't get along well with the other characters. His character for a Traveller20 campaign was so obnoxious and disagreeable that other characters were discussing a nonchalant way to space him out an airlock. He got the hint that things weren't working out and split from the group a few days after that session.

Quote from: Harlock;913895I thought a dude undressing my wife with his eyes was bad... dadgum. You guys win.

No man! The guy with the wanker at his gaming table is the "winner".
Jeez Louise, there would be some real ultra-violence if someone did this at one of my games.

Shemek

Never had to run anyone off from an FRP game, although...... Way back around 1980, I was DMing for a group of friends for AD&D. My wife's sister was one of the players, and the sister's character was a thief. Well, the party was in a situation where they might get involved in combat soon, so the party leader told that thief to carry the torch. The thief character refused! The party leader said that the thief should carry the torch since she she only needed one hand for her short sword, and wasn't carrying a shield in the other hand. Sounds reasonable, right? But then the sister gets all bent out of shape, takes off her shoes and throws them at the party leader! Then she stormed off. We didn't invite her to any more D&D sessions, and my wife never said a word about not inviting her sister back.

I had one interesting situation playing a boardgame way back in the 70s. While it wasn't running someone off, it was extremely satisfying, nonetheless. It was at a gamecon, and I was playing in a tournament game of the old (original 1960s version) Avalon Hill game "Stalingrad." I happened to be playing the Russians, and my young opponent played the Germans. As we're playing the game, my opponent (whom I had never seen before) starts going on and on about how the Germans were the master race, and how if Hitler had only done this or that differently he could have won the war, etc. At first I figured the guy was just doing that to get me off my game, sort of psychological warfare. But as the game went on, it seemed he was very serious about his comments. From time to time, guys playing at other nearby tables would look over at my opponent with wondering looks.

So, eventually, I won the game. But seeing as I had had my fill of the guy, instead of shaking hands, I slowly pushed my chair away from the table, stood up, grabbed my crotch and said, "I got yer master race right here!" Then I turned my head, bent over, and spat on the floor. My opponent then violently pushed his chair away from the table and stormed off, and as he left, the other guys who were sitting near us all stood up and applauded. It was quite the moment!

I guess I'm fortunate to have not had to play games with too many weirdos.

Rusty DM

I've been told that my membership policies for our private Warhammer 40k gaming club are 'restrictive', but they're designed to deter the worst kinds of players:  Bums, whiners, manchildren, people who can't control their kids, etc.  So, most of the worst types don't get 'asked to leave' so much as, like the title says, 'ran off at the door'.

I've genuinely had people get angry because I ask people to bring some scenery with them if they have it.  I am specific and say it doesn't have to be anything special- I've let someone bring in a painted Red Bull 4-pack box and some cleaned-up rocks.  I'm not picky.  But people have lashed out because they believe that as the 'host', I should be providing everything (despite providing the table, 90% of the scenery to include model buildings and the like, and the actual place to play).  The ones I usually end up 'running off' are the entitled ones.  Some of these folks have gone and started posting 'do not game with this guy' and dropping my name on some FLGS facebook page (which actually had people asking 'why' and brought two of our members over because they LIKED how restrictive it was).

One guy, I wouldn't say I 'ran him off', but I was playing with a dude at a FLGS and he couldn't focus on the game because like too many gamers- he was a shitty parent.  He thought he could bring two kids, the oldest of which was around 5-6 years old, to a store full of little 'toys' and they would sit still in a chair while he gamed.  There was only so much of him having to stop and tend to his kids that I could take.  I eventually said, "Sorry, I'm out of time and you've got a handful to deal with".  The dude was there 2 hours later when I came back to shop with a friend.

I had to ask someone to stop coming fairly recently.  He's not a bad guy really but he had some very disruptive habits the derailed and slowed down the game something awful.  When I asked to talk to him, he blew up and insisted that he was doing nothing wrong and the problem was with everyone else.  At that point, I asked him to stop coming since I didn't think talking to him would do any good.

Quote from: rgrove0172;913909I forgot about the guy that kept showing off nude selfies of his wife. We sent him packing. A year and a half was all we could take.

Guess she wasn't hot?

Quote from: yosemitemike;913917I had to ask someone to stop coming fairly recently.  He's not a bad guy really but he had some very disruptive habits the derailed and slowed down the game something awful.  When I asked to talk to him, he blew up and insisted that he was doing nothing wrong and the problem was with everyone else.  At that point, I asked him to stop coming since I didn't think talking to him would do any good.

I've noticed that when people are convinced that it's "Everyone else, not me" that it's a precursor to them being a nuisance with zero self-awareness.

There was a boardgaming situation in the 1980s where we sort of ran a player off. Back in the 1980s, we had 8 consecutive years of playing the board game "Speed Circuit." We ran 16 races a year, just like the real F1, although we had modified the original Speed Circuit rules and turned it into "Advanced Speed Circuit." For those who don't know the game, it simulates Formula One racing on a tabletop. Although it came in boardgame form with a typical boardgame size map and some small cheezy plastic "race cars," we painted the various tracks on bedsheets and modifed Hot Wheels 1/64 scale open-wheel race cars to look like the real McLarens, Ferraris, etc, of Formula One. We also had 12 to 20 drivers at most races.

In Speed Circuit, everyone has to plot their next move simultaneously (and secretly). Then, when all players have written down their move, they all reveal their speed. For each increment of 20 mph, your car moves one space on the track. You have to slow down and obey the speed limits in various corners, although if you go through a corner faster than the speed limit, you can either burn "wear" points (which simulates using up your brakes and tires), or roll 2d6 and chance spinning out or crashing. We came up with the concept of buying "dice roll modifiers" when you built your car before playing the game, but in the end you only have so many wear points and DRMs. When you run out of wear points, you can still exceed the speed in a corner by no more than 20 mph, and you have to roll dice.

So, we used to use the "honor system" where each player would secretly check off on their car sheet for every wear and DRM they used. Except, some of us started having strong suspicions that some players weren't marking off everything they should have marked off. One guy, in particular, won the championship one season, winning about half of the races. Ordinarily, that should be about impossible as most players were of equal skill, and the cars were about the same, etc. So the next season, the same guy is leading in the points standing about halfway through the season. Another player and myself decided to secretly audit the suspect points leader. We two auditors sat on opposite sides of the table so we couldn't communicate, and every time the points leader used a wear point or DRM, we checked it off on special sheets we had made.

So halfway through that next race, the points leader is leading by a small margin, and he is going into a corner fast enough so that he will have to use 2 wear points and roll for a chance (60 mph over the speed limit in a corner is as fast as you can go in the game). So he is about to roll for his chance roll, and I ask him, "Is this a modified roll?" He said yes, it was. I then told him that he had already used all of his dice modifiers! That got the attention of everyone else at the table. Then my fellow auditor from across the table chimed in with, "I counted that he already used one too many DRMs!" After a moment's pause, someone else asked, "Are you accusing him (the points leader) of cheating?" I said "Damn straight!" So, the accused guy takes an unmodified roll (1 in 6 chance of crashing as opposed to a 1 in 36 chance of crashing when using a DRM), and he crashes. He never said a word in his own defense, but merely got up and left the table. He never came back, either.

In turns out that same cheater was playing in a Napoleonic boardgame "Empires in Arms" where you had to raise money through taxes, then purchase military units, etc. Some of the other Speed Circuit folks were in that other game with the cheater, and those other folks then audited the cheater in the other game. They found the cheater had raised way more money than he possibly could have done legally, and that he bought more military units than he could have bought with the money he did raise! So the other folks kicked that cheater out of that game. I never saw that cheater at any other local gaming events after that.

Our Speed Circuit game then adopted the measure of using poker chips for wear and DRMs. Before each race, you were doled out so many chips for wear, and so many of a different color of chips for DRMs. Then, when you used a wear or DRM, you had to throw a chip into a box in the middle of the table. We also used small boxes that personal checks came into to store the chips for each driver, as you didn't want opponents to know when you were running low on chips. Never had a problem with cheaters after that. If someone used a wear or DRM and didn't throw in a chip, at least 6 other players would yell out, "throw in your chip(s)!" so nobody could get away with not throwing in a chip when they should have.

Rusty DM

Ive been sorely tempted a few times as mentioned in other threads. But usually have still run the campaigns to conclusion.

As admin on a RP site I have though just stopped dealing with a few artists I used to RP with because they turned out to be crooks. I also cut off one of the designers for Natural Selection because he was a neo-nazi. Banned another when he he was telling me about how him and his buddies were going to beat up a kid at a con. And so on.

I saw one DM and a player in a group I was part of get into an argument that ended with the player storming out of the house and the DM burning the players character sheet. Suffice to say that was it.

But over on BGG theres a thread that began with this. Jeebus Christ!

QuoteApologies in advance as I'm sure this topic is discussed frequently, but I wanted to get input on my experience.

How do you deal with challenging players?

You don't need to read the below to answer the question, but it provides context around what I mean by "challenging players"?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Background - One reason I left DMing long ago was because I DM'ed for a group that had a player named Doug (places and names changed to protect the innocent). Doug was a funny, charismatic, outgoing, intelligent, charming, loyal, and friendly guy. But Doug was also an (censored).

Upon meeting someone for the first time, Doug would often work to verbally provoke the person. Passionate about the Yankees? Doug's going to tell you ten reasons why the Yankee's suck. Doug loved finding people's buttons. It's how he got to know someone, measured them up, and assessed a person's sense of humor. Once he found a person's buttons he would back off and generally be a great guy. He'd push people's buttons for laughs, but rarely, if ever, to be mean. If someone was particularly sensitive about something, he generally wouldn't "go there" ever again. Some people met Doug and hated him forever. Others got past his initial provocations and then loved him. My DM group and I were in the second group.

Being a DM for Doug was challenging. I'll give you an example to illustrate the challenges of DM'ing for Doug.

I prepared a detailed campaign over the course of weeks, and I had the players make a group of new characters. Doug created a Lawful Good Paladin. The others created various Good aligned characters.

I start the group in a new land on the docks of a big city in the middle of the day. The area bustles with laborers loading and unloading from the various ships. A Halfling man is directing the workers. I set the scene and I'm about to send the players the hook when Doug speaks up.

Doug (Lawful Good Paladin): What are the people loading and unloading?
Me (DM): Various trade goods in crates and barrels. Sacks of flour. That type of stuff.
Doug: Oh, I am so taking a sack of flour. I need it. I need flour.
Me (caught off guard): Really?
Doug: Yes. I grab the nearest sack of flour. I'll be like walking around the dungeon with a big 'ole sack of flour over my shoulders. The monsters will be like, "what is he carrying? Is that a sack of flour?!?!"
Other Players: laugh
Me (thinking): Ok. You grab the flour and the Halfling starts shouting at you. He appears like he may be in charge of the cargo. He runs up to you and tells you to put the flour down.
Doug: Does he have any weapons?
Me (failing to think of any reason why the Halfling work manager would have a weapon): No.
Doug: I stab him in the face. With my sword. I just stab him in the face.
Me: Really?
Doug:
Other Players: laugh
Doug:
Other Players: laugh

I tell the players I need a minute to prepare what happens next. They all continue laughing and riffing on the murder of the Halfling and the Paladin inexplicably carrying around a sack of flour as he adventures.

Having not prepared for this contingency, I reason that the docks would be relatively safe for work because city guards would be in the area. Given the shouts and commotion, I reason that a guard likely would have seen the murder of the Halfling manager. They probably knew the Halfling personally since they worked together at the docks. The shocking and brazen murder would incense the guards. I reason that the city guards would be fairly experienced from spending their lives working in a big city, so I draw up their stats which are significantly higher than the entry level characters of the players.

Me (DM): An alarms sounds, someone blowing a whistle. You see city guards mobilizing and coming towards you. What do you do?
Doug: I search the Halfling. Does he have any gold?
Other Players: laugh
Me: No. All you find is his lunch wrapped in parchment in his pouch.
Doug: I take it out and eat it.
Other Players: laugh
Me: Ok. You eat the lunch. Six city guards arrive, looking furious. They have their weapons drawn and they tell you all that you are under arrest.
Frank (one of the other players - Chaotic Good Wizard): angry What? Why am I under arrest?
Me: Are you asking me or the guards?
Frank: You. I'm not with him.
Me: You are all together. It appears the city guards think you are with the Paladin.
Jim (another one of the other players - Neutral Good Ranger): angry No, that is bullshit. We are not with him.
Me: Are you telling me or the guards?
Jim: You. Why would the guards think we are with Doug? Our characters haven't even talked to Doug yet. Our characters don't even know him yet.
Me: It appears the city guards think you are all together. Maybe it is because they see a group of outsiders, together on the dock, all carrying weapons. Are you going to try to talk to the guards?
Frank: angryNo, that's not fair.
Jim: angryThat's bullshit.
Doug: Screw it guys. Let's just kill these pigs.

The players agree to immediately launch into a fight with the six guards. It quickly becomes apparent that the players brand new characters are outclassed by the city guards, and the players' moods start to sour. They begin to argue about the rules - Doug wants to be able to do a double scissor kick at two guards and sword stab a third (all while wearing full plate armor). Rather than get bogged down in rules arguments, I relent and allow it. Still, the players are losing the fight. The players shift to arguing that lowly city guards shouldn't be this tough.

I position the guards poorly so the players have an opportunity to escape if they disengage and run. Despite my hints, the players are pissed off by the situation and decide to fight to the death. Which they do.

As the last player character falls dead, they all agree that my campaign sucks. They now have a litany of reasons centered around the "unrealistic" behavior of the city guards. By this time, even the events of the play session start to get re-written. They argue that as DM, I never gave them a chance to talk to the guards or do anything except fight.

I offer to do a reboot. Since we just started playing, the characters can start the campaign over. But Frank and Jim decline. If the city guards are this "unrealistic", they have no interest in the material I actually prepared for the campaign. Doug is the lone dissenter. He wants to play again. He says he wants to kill the Halfling manager with the sack of flour this time. He describes crushing the little guy with a giant sack of flour, bringing some laughs. But Jim and Frank are done.

I know this may seem extreme, but it is a fictionalized account of why I stopped DM'ing and playing RPGs altogether. I couldn't quite understand what my buddies wanted out of a game as players, and I didn't know how to DM for them. I'm fairly certain Frank and Jim would have enjoyed the material I worked so hard to prepare, but Doug would always pull the story in absurd directions.

I do know that Doug enjoyed seeing me squirm. It was one of my buttons he could push for laughs. I was the "unflappable" member of our group that he couldn't bait with his usual antics.

How do you deal with challenging players like Doug? What lesson should I have learned from this experience? Was quitting RPG's the answer?

Quote from: Crüesader;913920I've noticed that when people are convinced that it's "Everyone else, not me" that it's a precursor to them being a nuisance with zero self-awareness.

They are simply impossible to deal with rationally.  Because they are convinced that any problem must be caused by someone else, it's impossible to get through to them or get them to consider changing their behavior.  They become completely impenetrable and intractable.

Don't play with assholes.

Okay, we're done here.  Somebody fetch me a beer.

Get your own beer.