Had the latest Traveller game in the These Islands Imperium campaign during which a Zhodani citizen was recovered and asking for political asylum. In the initial interview while awakening, the Zhodani is undergoing some light questioning when he repeatedly asks about "the millions of human minds detected in the local gas giant" which the Player just ignores. Now I had the NPC bring this up three times, which I thought was excessive, but the Player didn't catch on to it at all.

I decided to keep the plot hook, but just not mention it unless the Player suddenly remembers. Or have his PC make an intelligence check to remember should there be sufficient reason.

I'd like to hear of other gamemasters in similar situations and how you handled it without giving away the secrets of the campaign.

After they've missed the Clue Hammer enough times, I usually curse that the One Player Who Pays Attention wasn't there that evening - then I go on with the game. The lemming-like PCs sometimes then go on to meet a grisly fate as a result of not picking up on the vital clue. The players nominally present then get a vague puzzled look.

Seriously, I do find that player groups tend to rely on That One Player to actually track what's happening in the campaign, and it's when they're away that disaster usually ensues. If I'm worried about it I tend to do deliberate 'filler episodes' to avoid disaster. Of course this only encourages the more sheeplike players in their not paying attention...

Quote from: jeff37923;797490I decided to keep the plot hook, but just not mention it unless the Player suddenly remembers. Or have his PC make an intelligence check to remember should there be sufficient reason.

I'd like to hear of other gamemasters in similar situations and how you handled it without giving away the secrets of the campaign.

Honestly, I'd just have an NPC say "the dude said this thing, MAYBE THAT IS RELEVANT", if the player has been that oblivious. Simply knowing that there was a clue, and they were too daft to realize, is "punishment" enough for many players (If it's a clue you really want them to follow, of course!).

Quote from: S'mon;797493Seriously, I do find that player groups tend to rely on That One Player to actually track what's happening in the campaign, and it's when they're away that disaster usually ensues. If I'm worried about it I tend to do deliberate 'filler episodes' to avoid disaster. Of course this only encourages the more sheeplike players in their not paying attention...

Having been That One Player (Not in your campaign, obvs); if you want players to remember what went on, reward them for taking part in the pre-session recap (A few XP should do the trick). Eventually, people will do recaps to get the reward (And as long as the recap is done, why do you care why they did it? You can adjudicate anyone trying to game the system).
I've also taken to giving players a "player's pack"; folder with character sheets, rules summaries, notebook, pencil, anything else they might need. Requires some outlay (A couple of quid at your local pound shop), but it puts everything a player right need, right in front of them. Hell, I even provide dice for people.

What I often like is for the PCs to run into a rival gang of adventurers who have glommed onto the clue.  Then it's not just, "Oh, here's a clue..." but "These guys are going to get it before we do..."

You could try introducing a different clue that leads to the same plot hook.

And just keep doing it until they pick up on it.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;797496You could try introducing a different clue that leads to the same plot hook.

That's what I would try to do... if it seems at all possible/plausible. More than one path to the necessary information or idea.

Quote from: jeff37923;797490Had the latest Traveller game in the These Islands Imperium campaign during which a Zhodani citizen was recovered and asking for political asylum. In the initial interview while awakening, the Zhodani is undergoing some light questioning when he repeatedly asks about "the millions of human minds detected in the local gas giant" which the Player just ignores. Now I had the NPC bring this up three times, which I thought was excessive, but the Player didn't catch on to it at all.

It is entirely possible that the player took it for a red herring, or simply didn't care, as opposed to "missing a clue".

QuoteI decided to keep the plot hook, but just not mention it unless the Player suddenly remembers. Or have his PC make an intelligence check to remember should there be sufficient reason.

I'd like to hear of other gamemasters in similar situations and how you handled it without giving away the secrets of the campaign.

I don't keep secrets, because players can't read my mind as to what is important and what isn't for a plot. Instead, I present it as information given and if they seem to be missing it I will ask to make sure that they picked up on it and find out why they didn't seem to catch it as important.

After I get an idea of what they react to, I present it that way or just point stuff out in a recap the next time we play. Most players I know can stay on top of stuff, but they don't really spend the time between games reviewing their notes or anything like I do as a GM, so a "last time on the adventures of..." keeps things on track.

If the players miss a clue, they miss a clue.

I play pure sandbox; there is nothing the players "must" do.

If there is something the players "must" do, tell them.  Expecting them to pick up on clues is useless.

Usually I let it bite them in the ass.  But then my players tend to derail often.  I was running a planetary invasion scenario where the commanders decided to surrender.  My plan was for the PCs to be involved in a gritty sf exodus somewhat like Battle Star Galactica which one player was very fond of.  Instead they shot the officers in the face and rallied their units to form a resistance and fight the invaders.  It happens, I roll with it.

I do have an issue with pure sandbox games.  My players tend to sit on their hands and be bored if something doesn't happen to motivate them, such as a planetary invasion I suppose.

If the players miss the clue then let things roll on based on their not being there. Was there anyone else who might have caught on and acted? Then have them get the laurels, if not then the show goes on.

Example: A few sessions back One of the PCs had been bemoaning the lack of a cleric in the group, despite them not really needing one. So while they were exploring an enemy camp incognito I had one of the PCs finds some prisoners and learns that there was a special prisoner, a "Wolf Lady" being worked over by the villains elsewhere in the camp. The PC find their main objective in the camp and decide to get out while they can and leave the hostages. This suggested by the player who wanted a cleric...

Later the group is back at the now deserted camp.  (they lingered in town a day or two before returning.) They work through a dungeon and said cleric wanting player finds in the villains stash a rather nice winter wolf pelt cloak and decides to keep it.

This is when I look at him and said.
"You know that cleric you were wanting?"
"Yeah?"
"You are wearing her..."

Priceless look on his face.

The world moves on.

Quote from: Old Geezer;797510If the players miss a clue, they miss a clue.

I play pure sandbox; there is nothing the players "must" do.

If there is something the players "must" do, tell them.  Expecting them to pick up on clues is useless.

Yeah this.

I might have an NPC catch onto the clue and chase it down, but no reason why they would tell the PCs what they were doing.

Can be a bit crap in those games where the PCs are trying to stop Cthulu destroying the world of course

Three times seems really obvious and like a lot of repetition...If you are the GM.

However when you are a player, it is seldom obvious, may easily be lost in a fog of other details, or even discarded as not fitting some theory some player likes better for what is going on when.

That's one of the reasons advice on mysteries often includes repetition and multiple paths to key clues. And as others have said, I tend to do some recap as a GM. Usually at the start of the next session, though sometimes as a write up of the last session. That gives me an opportunity to focus the players attentions on the elements of the session that I considered important or wanted them to notice without directly handing over just that one crucial bit of information.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;797495What I often like is for the PCs to run into a rival gang of adventurers who have glommed onto the clue.  Then it's not just, "Oh, here's a clue..." but "These guys are going to get it before we do..."

That's interesting trick. I can see how that could be pretty effective in some situations.

Some other techniques.

• If an NPC is in the scene I may roll to see if they notice the "obvious clue" and point it out to the PCs. "Hey boss, what do you think all these flasks and tubes and stuff with the weird green liquid are for? It kind of looks like that green liquid that Serpent man we killed had in his flask."

• In Call of Cthulhu we sometimes gave the most relevant player(s) a chance to make an Idea roll to notice, recall, or realize the relevance of a specific clue. Such a roll came to be called "a Save vs. Obvious" or "being hit with a clue-by-four."

Quote from: jibbajibba;797522Can be a bit crap in those games where the PCs are trying to stop Cthulu destroying the world of course

Personally I find those sorts of games don't work all that well as a sandbox. Unless the GM gets some perverse enjoyment from watching their game world burn based on a missed clue.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;797495What I often like is for the PCs to run into a rival gang of adventurers who have glommed onto the clue.  Then it's not just, "Oh, here's a clue..." but "These guys are going to get it before we do..."

Or the PCs get back in town just in time for a victory parade.  If you want to rub it in, have them get invitations to the reception afterwards.

Fate has great advice for this:
If failure isn't interesting, make it interesting or don't roll.


If the clue is 'necessary' then just hand it over. Otherwise make the failure to pick it up unimportant or interesting.

Quote from: Will;797535Fate has great advice for this:
If failure isn't interesting, make it interesting or don't roll.

I find failure is almost always interesting. Too interesting in the case where the game is about saving the world.