I can do either and usually leave it up to the players. Though for some games being outsiders can be fun.

Quote from: Cole;458700I call bullshit. An outsider interacting with an unfamiliar place is a staple of the adventure genre.

Then start them out in their own society first, so that they have a context and aren't just utter outsiders played without any emulative framework.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;458843Then start them out in their own society first, so that they have a context and aren't just utter outsiders played without any emulative framework.

Why is that necessary? If the GM wants to run a campaign in Oz, how many sessions do the PCs have to spend in Kansas for the game not to be a "cop-out?"

I am not saying it's always going to be a bad idea to do so - if the GM is going to run a campaign where the PCs are roman soldiers about to be sent to Britain it might be enjoyable to have a session or two and Rome and play out the journey to Britain but I don't think it is a cheat not to do so.

Does it make a difference if the place where the campaign starts and the place the PCs come from are more or less culturally similar? What if we have a baseline Basic D&D setup where there is a village next to a large dungeon. If the PCs are new in town, they can meet the NPCs at the same time the players do, hear the local legends about the dungeon in "real time," etc. Is it still necessarily that they have their prequel session in 14th Century English Village A 50 miles away before they travel to face the dungeon next to 14th Century English Village B?

Quote from: Cole;458700I call bullshit. An outsider interacting with an unfamiliar place is a staple of the adventure genre.

By saying the word "genre" you have given yourself away as a swinish story infiltrator! Repent! Drink poison and sign a confession!

(Of course you are 100 percent right.)

Quote from: JDCorley;458995By saying the word "genre" you have given yourself away as a swinish story infiltrator! Repent! Drink poison and sign a confession!

(Of course you are 100 percent right.)

If you're going to troll, you'll have to wrestle Aos for it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;458843Then start them out in their own society first, so that they have a context and aren't just utter outsiders played without any emulative framework.

RPGPundit

What? That makes no sense whatsoever. Just like you extrapolate on your own personality and/or the personality of others to role play characters you are not, you extrapolate on what you know about your character's origins to come up with an implicit or explicit cultural frame of mind for him, even when you don't even realize it. I.e. if you come from 'Aegypt', chances are you'll be thinking about Epypt anywhere in the Akhenaton-Tut-Ramses time frame and come up with a character that vaguely reminds you and/or others of that. Even if we're just talking about a clan living in the hills in a fort with a wood fence or something, you need actually very little to get a mental picture of your character and role play from there.

So this notion that you just *have to* start a character in his region of origin otherwise "there's no emulative framework" does not make any sense whatsoever.

Quote from: Cole;458999If you're going to troll, you'll have to wrestle Aos for it.

Actually, in this thread, he'll have wrestle the pundit first.

Quote from: Aos;459007Actually, in this thread, he'll have wrestle the pundit first.

Cue the infamous Strek Trek fight music!

Quote from: RPGPundit;458843Then start them out in their own society first, so that they have a context and aren't just utter outsiders played without any emulative framework.

RPGPundit

Well, this is assuming that the GM has not provided any emulative framework for cultures and societies outside the starting region.  If a sufficient framework for outside cultures has been provided, then I don't see any necessary reason to limit characters to the starting geographical region.

Quote from: Aos;459007Actually, in this thread, he'll have wrestle the pundit first.

They can line up.

Meanwhile, Aos, do you have any reflections on the subject vis a vis Metal Earth?

I am equally fond of doing things either way. However, human PCs are pretty much going to be outsiders, because they are nearly extinct in the regions I've detailed. I'm also open to having characters drop in from another time or place like Den, John Carter or Dorothy. I agree that it allows the player to learn the setting along with character. In fact i might even suggest that if it is a setting that you plan on reusing, or you game has a high mortality rate, that you make everyone's first character an outsider and wait until they learn the basics about the setting before they play an insider.

It depends on how involved the player is going to be. If they are willing to read the setting material, I like insiders. Also, as GM, I won't let player characters do something that their characters wouldn't do without telling them.

Player says, "I run the red light."

GM says, "On Earth 323, traffic violations are punishable by death."

Player says, "Oh, I guess I won't run the red light."

Quote from: Cole;458986Why is that necessary? If the GM wants to run a campaign in Oz, how many sessions do the PCs have to spend in Kansas for the game not to be a "cop-out?"

I am not saying it's always going to be a bad idea to do so - if the GM is going to run a campaign where the PCs are roman soldiers about to be sent to Britain it might be enjoyable to have a session or two and Rome and play out the journey to Britain but I don't think it is a cheat not to do so.

Does it make a difference if the place where the campaign starts and the place the PCs come from are more or less culturally similar? What if we have a baseline Basic D&D setup where there is a village next to a large dungeon. If the PCs are new in town, they can meet the NPCs at the same time the players do, hear the local legends about the dungeon in "real time," etc. Is it still necessarily that they have their prequel session in 14th Century English Village A 50 miles away before they travel to face the dungeon next to 14th Century English Village B?

Of course not, don't be silly.  My point is that often the whole "you are guys from a bog-standard fantasy setting, but we start out in this weird alien culture you don't actually need to know anything about" is the gaming equivalent of "tl;dr"; the GM being too lazy to want to explain the cultural context and the players being too lazy to learn about it; so they just want to be Greyhawk characters in Tekumel or whatever. It is too often a way for player characters to avoid having to follow cultural mores.

RPGPundit

I give up. The serial assumptions are too much to bear. It would require a ten pages back and forth to go over this, and I just don't feel like doing the paddling myself.