Quote from: Kyle Aaron;316522"I rule against the next one to speak."

That's awesome.  

To the OP, you might consider taking a break from gaming for a month or so and explaining why.  This might give them a few weeks to realize that 1. they're disrupting the game and 2. they miss gaming enough to make some attitude adjustments.  

and welcome to therpgsite.  

Pete

Quote from: aramis;316574You also stand good odds of gaming by yourself.

That kind of capricious behavior works only so long except for certain codependant dweebs, who seek to be abused.

Not true in my experience. I've been GM'ing long-term campaigns since 1979, and over the decades I've locked a lot of player's heels, and I've never lost a player for it.

And I've been called on as a player for the same thing.

Its the GM's task to keep the group focused on the game, with a minimum of outside talk and bickering.

I will chastise my players for wasting time bickering in a heartbeat. That usually stops them. But I have found that over the years some conflicts just keep popping up. In those cases I break out:



and my The Thing hands and let the two players step outside and settle it. Or if they so desire, they can settle the matter with an assortment of Nerf products (that I happily provide) designed for the agile duelist as opposed to the brutish one.

A "Rule Duel" usually breaks out in my game 2-3 times a year. I have been gaming with most of the same folks for over 15 years. I have never lost a  gamer to either player chastisement, or foamy implement duels.


love,

CS

Quote from: weem;316404It's usually rules stuff (4e)

With the player base that 4e has, bad players are easily replaceable!

You might want to impress this fact on the two players....

This is one of the big features of playing the current edition of D&D. I'm suprised more GM's don't make use of it.

Here's a script of what you should do, this is time tested and really works:

GM :Hey, this dumb stuff you're doing is messing up the game. Stop doing the dumb stuff Kthx

P1: Oh, sorry.

P2: Oops, my bad.


So really, you should tell them what they're doing that's messing things up. Not us.

I'm sure if they're made aware of the fact it's harshing your mellow, being your friends and wanting a good game too, they'll stop.

Quit being a pansy...and welcome to the RPGsite!

Quote from: aramis;316574You also stand good odds of gaming by yourself.

That kind of capricious behavior works only so long except for certain codependant dweebs, who seek to be abused.

This hasn't been my experiance and I think that Kyle is right.

More often, I've seen that a lack of enforcing reasonable social behavior in a game by the GM results in Players sucking the fun out of the game for the rest of the group. That kills game sessions deader than ratshit.

If taking the effort to stop bickering between two Players is too much for the GM, then the other Players will drift away from the game as session after session gets sucked into the black hole of the bickering Players.

Let me ask this: If it wasn't rules, would they have something else to bicker about? Is the root cause a disagreement about the rules or their personalities?

Seanchai

Kyle is so right!

You're doing the hard work and they're messing about playing Rules Lawyer III

Be sweet, give them a few magic items they love, let them think they're playing real well. Then use the rule of your choice to dash their hopes. Leave at least one PC trapped as a slave - beyond rescue forever.

It's not the enforcing rules on people, it's kyle's asinine mode of so doing. I was referring to. But if ou guys have friends who like being treated like shit, have fun with them.

Then again, the way kyle advocates treating people, he'd have lost every person I've gamed with in the last 10 years... first time he mouthed off at them.

One thing to clarify - I don't have a problem saying something in game, I have. I have told one to "settle down, it's not a big deal", the other to "let it go, chill out" etc. The problem is, they continue to go at each other - so I need to do more than that and that was the point... what I would be doing which (as I said in the first post) I figured would be to send an email.

I then posed 2 questions - has it happened to you, and have you been the cause. I already knew the advice (to me) was going to be to suck it up (I even said that in the post as well as it would be my advice to others in the same situation) which is why I didn't ask what I should do.

But I'm still entertaining that kind of advice anyway since maybe that wasn't clear enough

To those who answered the questions, thank you! To the others, thanks as well for the advice regardless, I really do appreciate it!


@pspahn

QuoteTo the OP, you might consider taking a break from gaming for a month or so and explaining why. This might give them a few weeks to realize that 1. they're disrupting the game and 2. they miss gaming enough to make some attitude adjustments.

Yea, I actually can't do the weekly thing in August as I just bought a new house! So yea, that will give me a break, and coupled with the email I am about to send to the group that pretty much follows your suggestion here

@OneTinSoldier

QuoteIts the GM's task to keep the group focused on the game, with a minimum of outside talk and bickering.

Indeed. I think I do an 'okay' job at this - I do need to step it up though.

@C S

QuoteI will chastise my players for wasting time bickering in a heartbeat. That usually stops them. But I have found that over the years some conflicts just keep popping up. In those cases I break out:

I think those would come off and they would go at it, haha - though that WOULD be entertaining... might have to get a video and drop it on YouTube

@Jaeger

QuoteWith the player base that 4e has, bad players are easily replaceable!

You might want to impress this fact on the two players....

Yea, these are good friends of mine... hence the email sent to 'everyone' probably being the best idea - I don't want to single them out and I would not say that to a good friend "I can get others in here like that!" *snap*, hehe

@KrakaJak

QuoteQuit being a pansy...and welcome to the RPGsite!

Roger, and thanks

@jeff37923

QuoteIf taking the effort to stop bickering between two Players is too much for the GM, then the other Players will drift away from the game as session after session gets sucked into the black hole of the bickering Players.

You know what's funny? I asked another player about it and he was like "huh? They argue?" - I had to give him 3-4 examples before he said, "Oh yea, I guess I just don't notice it" hehe.

Seanchai

QuoteLet me ask this: If it wasn't rules, would they have something else to bicker about? Is the root cause a disagreement about the rules or their personalities?

I think it's their personalities. There are two in particular, but a third one gets involved in the activities as well from time to time. If it wasn't rules... I'm not sure if it would be something else or not, but I'm sure it would be cut down a lot.

@aramis

QuoteThen again, the way kyle advocates treating people, he'd have lost every person I've gamed with in the last 10 years... first time he mouthed off at them.

Yea, we have a pretty large player base, but I would lose them all to that as well. I get the point though.



Thanks again everyone - I appreciate the feedback, all if it

Quote from: weem;316733I think it's their personalities. There are two in particular, but a third one gets involved in the activities as well from time to time. If it wasn't rules... I'm not sure if it would be something else or not, but I'm sure it would be cut down a lot.

Personally, I think it's gut-check time. What's mostly at the core of the issue?

If it's rules, I'm of the opinion that you can take some of the suggestions above - time limit on rules debate, no books, et al. - find one that works for you and your group, and implement it.

If it's personality, well, not to be flip, but best of luck.

Seanchai

Quote from: aramis;316726Then again, the way kyle advocates treating people, he'd have lost every person I've gamed with in the last 10 years... first time he mouthed off at them.

You must game with some very sensitive souls indeed.

Of course, as a Traveller rules grognard of long standing, you probably have gamed very little at all

Gaming is about having fun. Roleplaying game systems are essentially rules for a conversation. "Tonight we're going to talk about dragons, dungeons, orcs and treasure."
"I want to say that my character cuts the orc's head off."
"Roll to see if you can say that, or have to say something else."

Rolling dice, eating junk food, having a conversation with lots of cracking jokes, dealing with tactical problems and complications with no easy solution - this is what gaming is about.

Gaming is not serious fucking business. Players and GMs have to have a sense of humour about themselves, or they are no fun at all. This sense of humour about themselves means that the GM can mock them a bit or get out the foam swords and they'll laugh at themselves and the game session can move on.

I find it easy but depressing to believe that you, Aramis, rarely or never game with people with easygoing people with a sense of humour about themselves. Loosen up. Try the Cheetoist Way. You might even have fun.

We game for the snacks. And also the dice. But mostly, just to hang out with friends and tell tall stories. Rpg books are just a bunch of guidelines for how to tell your tall stories, and give you a fair excuse to roll lots of dice and eat cheetos.

All of the people I've ever gamed with that fall under anything resembling "Cheetoism" were frankly the biggest bunch of insufferable, frustrating twats I've ever gamed with.

If that's the standard we're being held to know, I guess I'll stick with Aramis' uptight cunts.  At least I'll actually get to play the fucking game I came to play.

As I said, a sensitive soul.

We know that you are a sensitive soul, JA, because you are always flipping out on the boards and calling everyone a fucking cunt. You are an angry person, angry people are hard to game with, because to them everything is Serious Fucking Business.

That's alright, we must all follow our own natures, and seek those of compatible personality to hang out with. I'm not sure quite who is compatible with an angry person, but luckily it's not my problem.

weem,
   If your friends are not getting how much this sucks for you, you may need to let them know in no uncertain terms.  Tell them you can't GM for them anymore if this is how they are going to act.  Maybe one of them should take over GM duty.