Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;953831They knew precisely what they were doing.

There's a first time for everything.

Quote from: Akrasia;953855The original dialogues could not be changed. The contract said nothing about adding new dialogues.

By adding new companions (my research found an additional four in the 'Enhanced Edition') that automatically CHANGES the dialogs, because adding is change.  I doubt their contract denied the ability to change the characters, because adding new ones, means the old ones had to have new lines added.  Contracts tend to be very specific for liability reasons.

As for the Safana thing, I was under the impression (and I will free admit that I could be wrong there) that the writer changed the dialog in the Enhanced Edition to make her seem more sarcastic, because she didn't like the idea of a woman being strong AND sexual.  Again, this is what I was lead to believe, I could have been mistaken or more likely misinformed.

Quote from: Akrasia;953855Your own example refutes your claim. The same dialogues, interactions, and so forth are in the EE versions. There just are new dialogues and interactions.  

I'm not sure how you get to that conclusion. I just pointed out that the addition of lines due to the introduction of four new characters, requires changing the pre-existing dialogs.

Quote from: Akrasia;953855There was a bizarre kerfuffle over one NPC -- a character who cannot join the party by the way -- who has one transgender line. It's easily missed/avoided/ignored. Yet many people flipped out over it, claiming that it somehow ruined 50+ hours of the game for them, even though the character in question is irrelevant for the main story.

Video game Roleplayers tend to be very particular about setting immersion, and a badly written character can break it.  This, apparently, was it.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;953917It's not that they're LGBT that was the issue, it's how those characters were portrayed.

How did they portray an LGBT character in a way that caused offense? Did they pull a bioware and hire a teenage girl to write the romance subplot?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;953955Contracts tend to be very specific for liability reasons.

TheRPGsite, come for the roleplaying discussions, stay for the multiple legal analyses per month.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;953955By adding new companions (my research found an additional four in the 'Enhanced Edition') that automatically CHANGES the dialogs, because adding is change.  I doubt their contract denied the ability to change the characters, because adding new ones, means the old ones had to have new lines added.  Contracts tend to be very specific for liability reasons.

The words in the original dialogues were unchanged. The lines in the original dialogues were unchanged. (Character X says Y in both the pre-EE and EE versions.)

Does adding new dialogues and lines change the originals? I had been operating with the "common sense" notion that if the words of the original dialogues were not changed, then those dialogues were not changed, despite the addition of new ones.

If I build a gazebo in my backyard, while not altering a single physical element of my house, have I changed my house? Your answer seems to be "yes". I had been assuming that the answer to that question is "no". It seems to depend on one's understanding of what constitutes the house. Even though no physical element of the house has been changed, you can now see a gazebo out the back window.

There may be an interesting philosophical discussion to be had here about how to define the constituent elements of an object or entity. (Do relations to other objects/entities count?) And I definitely can see the merit in your view. But I don't think it's the "common sense" view that underlies Beamdog's claim that they did not change any of the 'original content' (dialogues or storylines) of BG and BG2.

 

Quote from: Christopher Brady;953955I'm not sure how you get to that conclusion. I just pointed out that the addition of lines due to the introduction of four new characters, requires changing the pre-existing dialogs.

But the pre-existing dialogues were not changed. New dialogues (new lines) were added.

I mean, I've played both the pre-EE and EE versions of the games. The same dialogues are there intact in both versions. The EE versions have new dialogues (if you interact with or add the new characters).

Again, perhaps we're just arguing past each other here. You think adding Y to X changes X, even if the constituent elements of X are themselves unchanged. That's fine.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;953955Video game Roleplayers tend to be very particular about setting immersion, and a badly written character can break it.  This, apparently, was it.

Sure. I'm amazed that a single (minor) sentence can ruin people's immersion or enjoyment of a huge game. It sure didn't do that to me! But others may be more sensitive about these things.

It's very touching, by the way, that you care so deeply about these other "video game role-players", given that you clearly have not played the EE versions of the games and don't seem to be aware of the exact changes between the pre-EE and EE versions of the games.

Launch trailer is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wXLCIpFRg

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;954002Launch trailer is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wXLCIpFRg

37% thumbs down already. I guess it's time to get the popcorn.

Quote from: Krimson;95401837% thumbs down already. I guess it's time to get the popcorn.

I am hoping for a 'couch-play' GUI option with an Xbox controller on PC.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;954019I am hoping for a 'couch-play' GUI option with an Xbox controller on PC.

Once I buy a new tablet I'd probably use that.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;954002Launch trailer is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2wXLCIpFRg

Looks awesome.

Glad to hear that Chris Avellone (Lead Designer of the original game) was involved.

Quote from: Krimson;95401837% thumbs down already. I guess it's time to get the popcorn.

Why the huge negativity?

Quote from: Spinachcat;954035Why the huge negativity?

There seems to be a huge crowd of unhinged anti-SJW warriors who hated the one (admittedly rather clumsy) 'transgender' line included in Beamdog's SoD so much that they now feel compelled to complain about Beamdog everywhere...

*sigh*

Quote from: Spinachcat;954035Why the huge negativity?

No idea. I just call 'em as I see them. Shortly after, I got an email from GOG offering it for 30% off which is really tempting.

Quote from: Akrasia;954036There seems to be a huge crowd of unhinged anti-SJW warriors who hated the one (admittedly rather clumsy) 'transgender' line included in Beamdog's SoD so much that they now feel compelled to complain about Beamdog everywhere...

*sigh*

Even if I had noticed that, I probably wouldn't have even remembered. If I was one of those types, I wouldn't be patiently waiting for my copy of Blue Rose to arrive.

EDIT: Then the post sinks in. Is THAT the reason? Panning one of the best CRPGs ever over one character I can't even remember?

Quote from: Krimson;954040Even if I had noticed that, I probably wouldn't have even remembered. If I was one of those types, I wouldn't be patiently waiting for my copy of Blue Rose to arrive.

EDIT: Then the post sinks in. Is THAT the reason? Panning one of the best CRPGs ever over one character I can't even remember?

This is the age of internet tribalism. No matter what you do, the radicals on both sides will cyberbully you.

If you don't want to include women, PoC or LGBT in your game? Then you're a nazi.

If you want to include women, PoC or LGBT in your game? Then you're a filthy SJW.