'Character death is unfun!' 'Level drain is unfun!' 'Save-or-die is unfun!' 'Starting again at first level is unfun!'

So, what kinds of bad things are supposed to happen to your character? What kinds of setbacks are acceptable to you as a player? How 'harsh' or 'punitive' can the game-world be before you feel the need for a safe word? What are the nature and limitations of the challenges appropriate to your roleplaying experiences?

No real limits. Its a fictional creation and if it gets too fucked up or killed to continue playing then I will just roll up another and keep playing.

The caveat of course is that the game is fairly run and the misfortunes suffered are the result of decisions made in play.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;603106'Character death is unfun!' 'Level drain is unfun!' 'Save-or-die is unfun!' 'Starting again at first level is unfun!'

So, what kinds of bad things are supposed to happen to your character? What kinds of setbacks are acceptable to you as a player? How 'harsh' or 'punitive' can the game-world be before you feel the need for a safe word? What are the nature and limitations of the challenges appropriate to your roleplaying experiences?

Speaking for myself:

Character death can be very fun for me if it is based on good roleplay.

Save or die is unfun because its just random.

Level drain is fun for me, but permanant long term negative effects are not.

Starting at level 1 in a level 10 game is unfun for me; I have played many low level characters, and I prefer not to be a helpless civillian dragged along with great heroes for no rational reason.


What types of bad things do I like happen to my characters?
Too many to list

Failure to save people under his protection

Failure to live up to his own ideals

Loss of a friend or loved one

Loss of family reputation or wealth.

Homeland invaded by evil and defeated.

Rolemodels discovered to be unworthy.

Mistakenly performs evil act and has to deal with it.

Betrayal by a friend.

Build something of substance and then see it destroyed.

It depends, of course. I mean I could say "character death is fine but no rape", and it would be appropriate for most cases but there can be exceptions.

As I said I'm well on board with character death. However I don't like physical mutilation - primarily an aesthetic, not efficiency thing - or, in general, total loss of control situations including rape, mind control or generally having to be totally at mercy of some jackoff NPC (although short to mid-term stabbability of said NPC goes a long way to fix that).

I don't really appreciate effects that would put the character permanently behind everyone else in the group (such as permanent level or stat damage) although it depends on how important said handicap is going to be in practice.

Having said that, I hold that there don't have to be any bad things happening to the character aside from (temporary) setbacks in reaching their goal to have a fun and enjoyable game. Those things are largely orthogonal and adding some misery to character's (or players') lives isn't a magical formula for elevating the quality of play which it sometimes is considered to be.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;603106'Character death is unfun!' 'Level drain is unfun!' 'Save-or-die is unfun!' 'Starting again at first level is unfun!'

So, what kinds of bad things are supposed to happen to your character?

All the former. I'm cool with my character dying, being level drained, paralized, turned to stone, meeting some rust monsters, saving or dying, as long, and that's what's important here to me, as long as it's a consequence of my character's actions and not arbitrary dumped "just for fun" or completely random just "because". E.g. if the DM describes the unstable ceiling of the cave and I walk through it then without any precaution, that the ceiling crashes on my head and I save or die, I'm cool with it. I made a mistake. It's my fault. If I meet wights and I go into melee contact with them I'm cool losing levels - I made a choice to go in contact with them, for one thing, and going at it unprepared, for a second. If I don't pick up rocks to beat the shit out of the rust monster and instead go at it with my broadsword, I'm cool with it being turned to dust - I made a choice to confront the creature with a metal weapon in the first place. And so on.

Addendum: And I am ALSO cool with not knowing the exact reasons on the spot. Like my character opens a chest without checking it, I make a save or die, and boom, I die. Then the DM tells me "I can't tell you why you made the roll, your characters don't know, but trust me, it had to happen." I'm cool with that. The DM is the only one knowing what's really going on in some situations and I am cool with it - I trust the DM. If I don't trust the DM, I don't play, it's as simple as that, to me.

Anything greater than 15 seconds of critical thinking, or being out of the spotlight, gives me anaphylactic shock. I have stated my boundaries. Please check your privilege aside and respect them.
:rolleyes:

For me, I like the excitement of a game where character death is a real risk (one that doesn't just revolve around me doing something stupid or death being appropriate for that moment, i like to know that every battle could potentially be my last). Starting at first level is fun for me, but I am pretty flexible on that point.

That said, different people find different kinds of play fun. While I like a somewhat lethal game, with a let the dice fall where they may policy, i don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting character death to be less prevalent (and I don't think its bad for the hobby for there to be a variety fo opinions ont he subject----in fact I think variety on this is important to the hobby).

So sure, I am cool stuff like level drain, starting at first level and save or die. Makes the game fun for me. And if I am at a game where that is what the group does, then I don't have much patience for the guy who whines when things don't go his way. But if someone doesn't want these things in their game, and prefers a different style with perhaps a bit of script immunity,  I am fine with that.

Quote from: Opaopajr;603138Anything greater than 15 seconds of critical thinking, or being out of the spotlight, gives me anaphylactic shock. I have stated my boundaries. Please check your privilege aside and respect them.
:rolleyes:

You're just afraid of the dark aren't you?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;603139For me, I like the excitement of a game where character death is a real risk (one that doesn't just revolve around me doing something stupid or death being appropriate for that moment, i like to know that every battle could potentially be my last). Starting at first level is fun for me, but I am pretty flexible on that point.

That said, different people find different kinds of play fun. While I like a somewhat lethal game, with a let the dice fall where they may policy, i don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting character death to be less prevalent (and I don't think its bad for the hobby for there to be a variety fo opinions ont he subject----in fact I think variety on this is important to the hobby).

So sure, I am cool stuff like level drain, starting at first level and save or die. Makes the game fun for me. And if I am at a game where that is what the group does, then I don't have much patience for the guy who whines when things don't go his way. But if someone doesn't want these things in their game, and prefers a different style with perhaps a bit of script immunity,  I am fine with that.

Pretty much this.

I'm cool with save or die, crippling injuries, starting over at reduced level (specifics being determined by game), being mind controlled, or whatever. High enough frequency (to the point where it messes with the pace of the game) is the only thing that might chage. If bad shit happens to my character I'd prefer it was interesting, my fault, or both but it's no biggie. And it's best if the game keeps moving rather than coming to a complete halt.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;603106'Character death is unfun!' 'Level drain is unfun!' 'Save-or-die is unfun!' 'Starting again at first level is unfun!'

So, what kinds of bad things are supposed to happen to your character? What kinds of setbacks are acceptable to you as a player? How 'harsh' or 'punitive' can the game-world be before you feel the need for a safe word? What are the nature and limitations of the challenges appropriate to your roleplaying experiences?

Heh...you can add 'Rolling for ability scores is unfun!' to that.  I hear that one a lot.

I accept all of these as part of the game.  I don't get bent out of shape because I'm dealt a bad hand in poker, for example.

I am fine with my characters losing, particularly if they do it in entertaining ways (this includes random death due to critical hits or failed saving throws - even this can provide a sort of macabre enjoyment). Equipment loss is largely a non-issue; in fact, improvising from very little is one of those fun resource management games.

What I care about is mobility. The game should keep moving, and allow me to collect my wits and start over, or roll up a new character and get into the action again. If the game turns into an ultra-paranoid slog, or setbacks are so frequent that it becomes impossible to make meaningful decisions, then yeah, I've got a problem with that. A lot of people occupy extreme positions on "deprotagonisation", but it can occur under a seriously bad GM.

That means something like The Tomb of Horrors is fine if the party decides to investigate it. But I wouldn't want it to become the model for a whole campaign. My preferred scenarios are open-ended with differing degrees of success or failure - you can fail, and you can fail very hard, but unless there is a TPK, the party can keep going to try again and again until they exhaust their possibilities and/or the core conflict/problem is resolved. Of course, sometimes that resolution means failure. Which is fine: that's the price of being an adventurer.

Quote from: Bill;603114*snipped*

I'm reminded of a guy who jumps into the middle of an all-out brawl, then runs around with his hands up, shrieking, 'Not in the face! Not in the face!'

Quote from: Opaopajr;603138Anything greater than 15 seconds of critical thinking, or being out of the spotlight, gives me anaphylactic shock. I have stated my boundaries. Please check your privilege aside and respect them.

:rotfl:

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;603139That said, different people find different kinds of play fun. While I like a somewhat lethal game, with a let the dice fall where they may policy, i don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting character death to be less prevalent (and I don't think its bad for the hobby for there to be a variety fo opinions ont he subject----in fact I think variety on this is important to the hobby).

I'm sure there are people who enjoy flinging their poo at one another, too, but they'd better not try it at my table.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;603193I'm sure there are people who enjoy flinging their poo at one another, too, but they'd better not try it at my table.

For me what matter is behavior not a minor preference for starting levels or lethality. I can game with people who will either, and playing a less lethal game isn't a dealbreaker for me if that is what most of the players want, but I don't have much patience for people from either group who can let it go or keep arguing when ground rules for these things have already been established by the table.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;603193I'm reminded of a guy who jumps into the middle of an all-out brawl, then runs around with his hands up, shrieking, 'Not in the face! Not in the face!'

Could you elaborate? Not sure what you are responding to.