There are no atheists on the Disc World, because the gods'll put a brick through your window for spouting off like that.

The implementation is a bit weak in places but I do like the Warlock profession from Rolemaster Standard System's Channelling Companion.  They are anti clerics with spells like "Faith Breaker" that directly inhibit a cleric (or other channelling user) from using magic.

Even outside the SJW crap the setting is just worse. Reminds me of 2nd revision Darksun.
All the mysteries resolved and all the interesting antagonist forces are dead.

Golarion wasn't the best setting, or even very cohesive but it revelled in this anachronistic patchwork of things you can like.

Now it has all the faults it had before but now it lacks what made it good.

The 'Athiest Paladin' problem is similar to the 'Can Paladins be not LG' question. Id say while permitting such changes enables more ideas, it devalues the concept in it of itself.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1129078By that reasoning, anything and everything can be a god to someone.
A beetle could be a god. You can see it and touch it, and worship it.

The Sun is a god in many IRL religions.

As for fantasy worlds, does the beetle give you supernatural powers? does it speak to you? does it perform "miracles"?

Atheism is the lack of faith in god/gods, not the assertion that they do not exist. If you know they do exist you can't be neither agnostic nor atheistic in regards to them. Look above your response, What Altheus is saying.

A Paladin gets his powers from the god/gods, does their bidding, would a god not punish such a thing as thinking gods are just aliens from mork? Wouldn't that leave the Paladin powerless? Wouldn't that have happened several times before and thus making it into the worlds folklore?

Atheism in a fantasy world I can sort of buy (Heretic seems more apt), but an atheist Paladin?  That is fucktarded.  When an entire character concept revolves around powers derived from faith in a deity.....

Quote from: Zalman;1129101I don't see why atheism is incompatible with "a fantasy world". The vast majority of fantasy that I consume contains exactly zero direct intervention or definitive presence by anything divine. If I add in "from the character's point of view", the amount of fantasy that would meet that criterion is infinitesimal in relation to the body of fantasy in media.

As far as paladins go, they really don't make sense outside of Christianity. When the paladin sheds that mantle and becomes a "holy warrior", it introduces a "generic holiness" to the game that is by its nature morally relative. And once those gates are open, then anything can be a "holy" or sacred purpose, including atheism. I agree it's ridiculous, but it's a natural consequence of trying to retrofit a Christian archetype into "you know, whatever religion."

But we're not talking about the fantasy you consume, we're talking about the setting of fantasy game worlds, and it makes no sense if in your fantasy the gods interfere in mortal affairs constantly.

How can a holly warrior introduce moral relativism? Gods and Demons are real, they do intervene good and bad are objective not subjective in the game world. And if you're gonna introduce stand point "theory" then you'd need to have characters thinking the gods are the demons and the demons the gods, it doesn't work it throws all the worlds preconceptions to the trash.

Quote from: David Johansen;1129102There are no atheists on the Disc World, because the gods'll put a brick through your window for spouting off like that.

The implementation is a bit weak in places but I do like the Warlock profession from Rolemaster Standard System's Channelling Companion.  They are anti clerics with spells like "Faith Breaker" that directly inhibit a cleric (or other channelling user) from using magic.

The Warlock is an anti-paladin yes.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1129103Even outside the SJW crap the setting is just worse. Reminds me of 2nd revision Darksun.
All the mysteries resolved and all the interesting antagonist forces are dead.

Golarion wasn't the best setting, or even very cohesive but it revelled in this anachronistic patchwork of things you can like.

Now it has all the faults it had before but now it lacks what made it good.

The 'Athiest Paladin' problem is similar to the 'Can Paladins be not LG' question. Id say while permitting such changes enables more ideas, it devalues the concept in it of itself.

Exactly, if Paladins can be not LG then the very concept of objective good and bad, of objective morality goes out the window, and now you need to truly justify why killing Orcs is okay.

Instead you introduce the Warlock, and presto you have an anti-Paladin, hell make it playable even.

Quote from: oggsmash;1129110Atheism in a fantasy world I can sort of buy (Heretic seems more apt), but an atheist Paladin?  That is fucktarded.  When an entire character concept revolves around powers derived from faith in a deity.....

But, wouldn't the heretics be persecuted? And exactly my point, if the deity grants you your powers how the fuck would it allow you to think it's just a very powerful alien?

Sanya from the Dresden Files is a great example of an atheist/agnostic paladin.  He is essentially unconcerned with the identity or even the reality of his patrons.  Maybe they are aliens, maybe he is crazy, maybe they are angels.
It doesn't matter. Alll he cares about is that he is doing good work and helping people.

All the Knights of the Cross are wonderful examples of paladins.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129114But, wouldn't the heretics be persecuted? And exactly my point, if the deity grants you your powers how the fuck would it allow you to think it's just a very powerful alien?

Why the fuck would it care, unless it was concerned about its own market image?  So long as the champions it chooses get the jobs done that advance it's ineffable plans, why would it care about how correct their prayers are?

The only reason I can think of would be a setting where there are multiple gods competing for the same purview.  A single supreme god may have nothing to be concerned about so long as the job gets done.  A single death god without competition in the death arena might be able to use an asset to hunt rogue immortals without care about how the asset feels about the god itself.  

But multiple sun gods all trying to be the king of the sun would care very much about how their particular champions act and talk.  Branding and market forces become very important in that situation.

Quote from: Manic Modron;1129115Sanya from the Dresden Files is a great example of an atheist/agnostic paladin.  He is essentially unconcerned with the identity or even the reality of his patrons.  Maybe they are aliens, maybe he is crazy, maybe they are angels.
It doesn't matter. Alll he cares about is that he is doing good work and helping people.

All the Knights of the Cross are wonderful examples of paladins.

You can't be agnostic about beings you KNOW exist, because the agnostic says : "I don't KNOW if god/gods exist" It's a claim about knowledge not faith.

And, since you know said god/gods exist you require exactly zero faith.

faith
noun
noun: faith

1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
    "this restores one's faith in politicians"

2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

   
    Similar:
    trust

belief
confidence
conviction
credence
reliance
dependence
optimism
hopefulness
hope
expectation

Antonym:
mistrust

Since you have proof they exist then no faith required.

Quote from: Manic Modron;1129117Why the fuck would it care, unless it was concerned about its own market image?  So long as the champions it chooses get the jobs done that advance it's ineffable plans, why would it care about how correct their prayers are?

It depends, where do the gods get their power from? Why do they need prayers? Is the act of worshiping that fuels their power? Is worshiping their food?

Lets examine that:

Are there churches to worship the gods? Yes there are according to the worlds preconceptions.

Why would they exist? A deity that doesn't care about it's "market image" (even if it's the single god of the storm) wouldn't need churches and wouldn't reward fidelity by granting you powers.

IMHO the only reason churches would exist in such a universe is because the deities need the worshiping, it's their food, without it they grow weak and eventually die. Granted this is nowhere to be found (to my knowledge) in the official lore. But neither was the post apocalyptic setting and every body (or the vast majority) agree it must be so.