Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1033832No one in particular, I just don't see the need to hang on to an old term that carries some baggage (especially when 'race, class' sometimes feels like you're likely to follow up with 'gender' and start the Revolution ), when there's a broader term that does all the work and allows for 'human, but with something else in there' as well. And since this is not likely to get past idle daydreaming and at most a few online postings, don't worry that I'm part of some grand effort to subvert the hobby.

Who does it carry baggage with? In the last year I've been gaming at GaryCon,  GameHole Con, GenCon, Nexus Milwaukee, and ACEN Chicag with all sorts of different people talking about games at the bars and restaurants and not once has this come up as a thing. I didn't even know it was a thing until it popped up in this thread. When I was on Twitter up until last year I never saw it making the rounds.

I feel like this is a solution in search of a problem and before we start taking down fences we might as well ask why they are there. I think ancestry is far more confusing to new gamers than race. People that have never games know that an elf is a different race than a dwarf.

I see that both you and Willie are in Minnesota is this a Minnesota thing?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1033815Here's what always got me, for all the bitching that people did when 3.5 came out about how WoTC is a money grubbing corporation, invalidating your books with a new edition, but close enough to the old one...  Paizo turns around, effectively does the EXACT same thing, and gets praised for it.

Right, but there's an obvious psychology here that Paizo made a 'new' game better in a new format, that was compatible with your previous knowledge and had pretty new pictures. Perceived (rather than actual) value and emotional investment are real and something that WotC completely ignored.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1033834

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033825Encounter pacing alone can make the combat system very wonky and unfun.

QuoteIf you're trying to run on-rails APs, sure, but on-rails APs are stupid.



Optional for this very reason.



Your #1 complaint this whole time is your DM let you kill a pit fiend, which apparently he should have run a TPK instead. Which was entirely possible, but you've got it into your head that a pit fiend dealing with invaders by hiding in a cave (or whatever it was "you" did to "ensure" that it never found you before you cornered it in the bathroom or whatever) is actually due to a total failure in RAW. Also that a pit fiend should be untouchable by a 9th-level character's attacks because that's how it worked in 3.5 (I'm starting to get the impression that you think 3.5 is the authoritative version of D&D...which this is probably not the best forum on which to argue from that premise.)



:rolleyes:

Pfffff in RC D&D something like a Pitfiend would be an Immortal, so you are looking at fighting something equivalent to a max level character or other Immortals having an x% chance of stopping the fight per round if it's on the prime plane.
So the basic D&D version of a Pitfiend has way more abilities and tools than a 5e Pitfiend.
It's not only in 3.5 where killing such a thing at level 9 would be a laughable concept. 5e is the only edition I've seen so far that says a 7 person party is level 9s SHOULD be and to fight 3 separate Pitfiends.

Basic D&D does a better job curbing the absurd and it's last real update came in 1991.

Quote from: Ulairi;1033836It's cool that you're gaming with unicorns in Minnesota.

I'm glad I've never had the luck to play with somebody that when asked what race they want to play complains about the term race when talking about elf games.

So you completely missed how I said that this is barely a thing in the real world and mostly exists as a problem amongst self important stuffed shirts (on both sides) on the internet?

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033840Pfffff in RC D&D something like a Pitfiend would be an Immortal

And in AD&D they have 13 HD. RC isn't the One True D&D, either.

Quote5e is the only edition I've seen so far that says a 7 person party is level 9s SHOULD be and to fight 3 separate Pitfiends.

Pretty sure in 1e and 2e, 7 9th-level characters can handle more than one 13-HD monster per day, especially if the DM lets them get the drop on it alone and they win initiative in the first round. TBH you haven't convinced me that you did anything to kill a Pit Fiend in 5e that didn't involve a significant level of DM fiat (you've alluded to a brilliant strategy you had and never said what it is). Players often overestimate themselves in such situations.

Isn't Pathfinder the game with a table describing 50+ different situations of YES/NO is this an attack of opportunity?.. I guess removing race seem logical to them..

Pit Fiend (5e):  Fly 60', At Will: Fireball (range: 150')

Counterspell: 60' range

Your DM wanted you guys to beat that thing.  Or didn't plan how to use it at all.  This is a problem between the dice and the chair -- not a problem with the edition.

Quote from: KingCheops;1033846Pit Fiend (5e):  Fly 60', At Will: Fireball (range: 150')

Counterspell: 60' range

Your DM wanted you guys to beat that thing.  Or didn't plan how to use it at all.  This is a problem between the dice and the chair -- not a problem with the edition.

Oh man it's like we found it in a dungeon and the room we found it in had a big orb that it wanted.

The game itself says we should win that medium encounter. Either we can't win encounters that the game says we can or we do defeat 3 Pitfiends a day with level 9 characters.

Both options are dumb.

Was that AD&D Pitfiend just 13HD or 13HD plus lots of flat health from higher levels along with a slew of special abilities?

"flat health from higher levels?"  What in the name of Crom's hairy nutsack does that even MEAN?

Well I wasn't at the table so didn't know the specifics.  So you are bitching that you guys were able to defeat a creature in a contrived situation that neutered all of its in-game abilities and fluff and you are bitching there is something wrong with the game?

Ignored for being a total cunt.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1033853"flat health from higher levels?"  What in the name of Crom's hairy nutsack does that even MEAN?

Idk much about 1e and anything about 2e is fuzzy.

But in RC D&D you cap out in HD eventually and just gain a fixed amount of HP after that every level.

I was wondering if the Pit fiend was a monster that worked like that.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1033841So you completely missed how I said that this is barely a thing in the real world and mostly exists as a problem amongst self important stuffed shirts (on both sides) on the internet?

I didn't miss that part. I'm just not believing the second part.

I don't think this is an issue at all in real life. Nobody that actually plays D&D gets offended that race is a character trait

Quote from: Ulairi;1033858I didn't miss that part. I'm just not believing the second part.

I don't think this is an issue at all in real life. Nobody that actually plays D&D gets offended that race is a character trait

Okay. Then we're basically in agreement. This is a tempest in a teapot (that doesn't even exist, it's a picture of a teapot posted on reddit or something).

Quote from: KingCheops;1033854Well I wasn't at the table so didn't know the specifics.  So you are bitching that you guys were able to defeat a creature in a contrived situation that neutered all of its in-game abilities and fluff and you are bitching there is something wrong with the game?

Ignored for being a total cunt.

I don't need to get into nitty detail about a 5e combat in a PF thread.

The game (5e) says we should expect to win 3 Pitfiend fights like that per day with that party size at that level. If you think that fight should be impossible, you have a bigger problem with 5e than I do.

PF wouldn't let us do that. PF2e probably won't either. Couldn't do that in 4e. Idk about 2e or 1e, but good luck pulling that off in RC D&D (some non-immortal in BD&D splat might have the word Pitfiend in it's name but I haven't found it)

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1033859Okay. Then we're basically in agreement. This is a tempest in a teapot (that doesn't even exist, it's a picture of a teapot posted on reddit or something).

  FWIW, I agree. Like I said, I was blue-skying ancestry mostly for being able to have 'humans' with a dryad, mermaid, elf, demon, or similar in their background with mechanical distinction.