Pathfinder 2nd Edition is Official

fearsomepirate · March 10, 2018, 06:08:28 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1028654Just like they did when Rules Cyclopedia came out? Or when AD&D came out? Or 2e, or 3e?

Uh...the RPG market shrunk significantly during this period. This is pretty well-known.

Warboss Squee · March 10, 2018, 06:09:39 AM

Quote from: Omega;1028398Then 5e fixed that. Fighters can and usually do deal out the most damage of any class. With the rogue coming up second IF they can team up with someone else. The rest fall way back dur to limitations or being situational.

Funny thing is Pathfinder almost fixed the Fighter in playtesting...right up to the end when they pussied out and listened to the whiney portion of their fanbase that were simply appalled that the dude with the sword and no magic didn't suck.

Warboss Squee · March 10, 2018, 06:26:08 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1028671That's what they did with Pathfinder. There was a serious contingent of players who wanted the Fighter class fixed from it's lackluster position as a playable in 3.x. Instead we got the first printing which focused on Sorcerers and their 'bloodlines' because one of the creators has a fetish for that class.

And actually, FFG did listen to its test players. Just not the one's that whined about the dice system. For example, did you know that Droids originally had to 'wear' armour? After some of us suggested changing the wording so that if you do buy armour, it's considered part of the chassis, same thing with weapons, if you wanted it built in. They also 'corrected' the Talents issue where originally, if you switched occupations (Say like a Smuggler going into a Hired Gun) you lost all access to previous talents. Instead now, they cost more in terms of XP.

They did listen. More than Paizo did.

Also keep in mind that FFG legally can't put out pdfs of their star wars material, even for free, without a giant dick in the ass from EA.

HappyDaze · March 10, 2018, 08:22:58 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1028671That's what they did with Pathfinder. There was a serious contingent of players who wanted the Fighter class fixed from it's lackluster position as a playable in 3.x. Instead we got the first printing which focused on Sorcerers and their 'bloodlines' because one of the creators has a fetish for that class.

And actually, FFG did listen to its test players. Just not the one's that whined about the dice system. For example, did you know that Droids originally had to 'wear' armour? After some of us suggested changing the wording so that if you do buy armour, it's considered part of the chassis, same thing with weapons, if you wanted it built in. They also 'corrected' the Talents issue where originally, if you switched occupations (Say like a Smuggler going into a Hired Gun) you lost all access to previous talents. Instead now, they cost more in terms of XP.

They did listen. More than Paizo did.

I Alpha tested F&D. Some of the issues in it were brought up repeatedly but FFG wasn't willing to change much of anything significant by that point as the lines had too much momenturm. I also playtested some of their adventures, and I can tell you that these were only really forums for praising the author's work even when the adventure was 10 kinds of awful (Friends Like These being the biggest offender I worked on).

HappyDaze · March 10, 2018, 08:23:54 AM

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1028679Also keep in mind that FFG legally can't put out pdfs of their star wars material, even for free, without a giant dick in the ass from EA.

They can (and do) for their alpha playtesters.

PrometheanVigil · March 10, 2018, 03:39:53 PM

Quote from: James Gillen;1028623Deeper than just a new word for race. Choice you make at creation, then as you advance a series of decisions you make to make yourself, say, even more Dwarfy.

Straight stolen from Shadow of the Demon Lord.

At this point, gamers should just play SOTDL since it's taken the best of 5e and WHFRP and merged them in a most glorious manner! It's obviously been an impactful influence on PF2e.

Armchair Gamer · March 10, 2018, 04:57:29 PM

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1028714Straight stolen from Shadow of the Demon Lord.

At this point, gamers should just play SOTDL since it's taken the best of 5e and WHFRP and merged them in a most glorious manner! It's obviously been an impactful influence on PF2e.

From everything I hear, it's a good system ... but its tone is far too dark and lurid for my tastes. Call me if they produce a 'genericized' version.

mAcular Chaotic · March 10, 2018, 05:26:54 PM

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1028714Straight stolen from Shadow of the Demon Lord.

At this point, gamers should just play SOTDL since it's taken the best of 5e and WHFRP and merged them in a most glorious manner! It's obviously been an impactful influence on PF2e.

And that's taken from Torchbearer and other such games.

Votan · March 10, 2018, 07:33:16 PM

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1028446A complete metaphysical explanation for why getting hit by a wight makes you lose a hit die and go up 1 point in THAC0 is the foundation of a good RPG.
:

I miss the original level drain; it was a clever way to induce a sense of horror into characters when facing a powerful undead creature. But the cunning mechanic was never going to be easily systematized and trying to do so seems to cause more problems than solutions.

PrometheanVigil · March 11, 2018, 08:52:59 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1028728And that's taken from Torchbearer and other such games.

'Dis nigga...

How you gonna take a game that took WOD Skill Specialty and mixed it up with 3.5 style skills and confuse that for ANCESTRIES from SOTDL? Seriously, how do you do that? Shit, it's near identical in execution to how they did it in EOTE with Char caps etc...

You don't choose your Ancestry and Path in Torchbearer. You get stuck with one and the other. In SOTDL, they have nothing to do with each other, not even coupled in the slightest. They level individually: I mean you start with just an Ancestry, yo. Come on son...

Manic Modron · March 12, 2018, 10:58:44 PM

Leveling up Blog.

I'm not saying that the design team is aware of how Stars Without Number / Lion & Dragon do their advancement, but it is a sign of parallel development that I think is a good thing.

Daztur · March 13, 2018, 06:06:20 AM

No mention of Pathfinder Online? Selling a big pile of money on fire certainly didn't help Paizo.

As for PF 2ed the one thing that Paizo has now is a big enough name that people will at least look at their playtests or read reviews/discussions about it, which is not a chance that many game companies have. So if the game's good it'll get sold. But it'll have to be good. They can't just take a version of WotC D&D and slap some extra bells and whistles on it. Not sure if they can do that but then I haven't followed Pathfinder since it became clear that it doubled down on all of the things I didn't like about 3.5ed.

fearsomepirate · March 13, 2018, 02:39:27 PM

Pathfinder Online was when Paizo got high on its own supply and thought the reason it was pulling ahead of D&D was because it was gaining serious brand recognition, not that WotC completely mishandling their IP meant the market was suffering so badly that the dedicated core had moved to an off-brand product.

IMO PF2 needs to be more than good, it needs to great and not be off-brand D&D. If, in your game, your a human paladin throws d20s at a mass of hobgoblins as a gnome wizard summons up a haste spell to turn him into a whirlwind of death, your game is D&D, end of story.

Haffrung · March 13, 2018, 05:26:32 PM

Paizo's bread and butter has always been its adventures paths, and the company bigwigs have come right out and acknowledged that. Their core books are there to support their AP subscriptions, not the other way around. As long as they keep putting out APs that people want to play, that create buzz and foster a sense of shared experience in the hobby, they'll be fine. In that light, it's probably more important that they get some prominent streamers out there playing those APs, than it is that the new edition is technically innovative.

James Gillen · March 13, 2018, 05:59:29 PM

Quote from: Daztur;1029067No mention of Pathfinder Online? Selling a big pile of money on fire certainly didn't help Paizo.

"Don't worry, I'm only burning my half."