3e delenda est

So it goes.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1028256To be a similar situation, they'd have to make 2nd Edition Pathfinder like 4th Edition D&D. I don't see that happening.

Nah, I think what he means is that if Pazio embraces 5e then when WOTC inevitibly jumps back on the damn five year plan and screws 5e then Pazio will be there to kick WOTCs asses, AGAIN because WOTC hates winning with a passion and is compelled to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

Pathfinder clearly met a large market demand for not-4e. There is not a demand for not-5e, so I think this will mostly sell to their legacy fan base from the 2000-2008 3e era. That is still a substantial market, of course. But I don't see it disrupting the primary, 5e-centric RPG market.

Quote from: RandyB;1028223Paizo finally bowed to the inevitable - you can only print splatbooks for so long.

In other news, water is still wet.

I think you could satisfy the points pickers and the just want to get going people at the same time with standardized allocation and an equal number of points as an option.  Hand out maximum bonus in one skill and a lesser set figure in a fixed number of other skills.  You can't go and make the standard allocation suboptimal or people won't use it.

What Paizo needs to do is improve the game without driving away existing fans.  Personally my favorite form of new edition is one that fixes the errata and a minimal number of rules issues and moves forward.  Like most gamers I love a big fat reference book that integrates the stuff from supplements but Path Finder was already one of those.  I suspect the tenth level spells business is Paizo focussing on an aspect of their game that WotC has entirely abdicated: epic level play.

Oh well, not a fan, but I'm breaking out the popcorn and looking forward to the ridiculously recursive edition wars.

Quote from: David Johansen;1028290Oh well, not a fan, but I'm breaking out the popcorn and looking forward to the ridiculously recursive edition wars.

Sounds like the best plan to me. I plan to replace the popcorn with pizza, though;).

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1028281In other news, water is still wet.

And useful for cooking, drinking, cleaning, bathing, and as the medium for a number of healthy recreational activities.

3e has tons of issues that were only fixed in 4e and 5e (and sometimes not). Beyond the big ones like the martial/caster disparity, ability scores vs bonuses, saving throws, alignment, the christmas tree effect, etc there are also minor issues like positive/negative energy and monster types which impede world building.

I am actually really, really glad that PF is making itself more like 5e. Mostly because it means that a lot of the cool stuff published for PF absent from 5e, like the awesome alternate magic systems by Dreamscarred Press and Drop Dead Studios, will likely be converted to it. The only reason I switched to 5e was because it fixed a lot of the stupid complicated rules issues that afflicted 3e.

Quote from: Omega;1028279Nah, I think what he means is that if Pazio embraces 5e then when WOTC inevitibly junps back on the damn five year plan and screws 5e then Pazio will be there to kick WOTCs asses, AGAIN because WOTC hates winning with a passion and is compelled to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

And yet, all Paizo can seem to do is copy, not innovate.  Note, I'm not even disagreeing about WotC's constant blundering, but it's not like Paizo came roaring out of the gate with a totally unique RPG that was a refutation of everything WotC was doing with D&D and totally rocked the gaming world (that crown goes to 1990s White Wolf).  They took 3rd edition D&D, bolted on ridiculous, I mean approaching Role-Master levels of complexity, and called it a day while they ground out a decade's worth of splat-books.  Now, they're scrambling to go 5e.

Translation: their last couple splats didn't even crack the top 10 on the Amazon Fantasy Gaming list and fell out of the top 20 faster than they could print new ones, they're not attracting new customers to their shambling mess of a rules set, and Starfinder didn't make nearly as big a splash as they hoped, and 5e's breakout success has made it pretty obvious that spending 3 hours choosing feats isn't the main draw to a game.

I think this is where Paizo begins to fade. The next evolution of d20 is already here, and it's 5e. 5e's not a polarizing edition the way 4e was, so there's no big mass of dissatisfied gamers for Paizo to keep building on. They've got more marketing power than companies like Pelgrane Press do, but when a market-defining brand is doing well, it doesn't leave a lot of space for serious competitors.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;10283083e has tons of issues that were only fixed in 4e and 5e (and sometimes not). Beyond the big ones like the martial/caster disparity, ability scores vs bonuses, saving throws, alignment, the christmas tree effect, etc there are also minor issues like positive/negative energy and monster types which impede world building.

I am actually really, really glad that PF is making itself more like 5e. Mostly because it means that a lot of the cool stuff published for PF absent from 5e, like the awesome alternate magic systems by Dreamscarred Press and Drop Dead Studios, will likely be converted to it. The only reason I switched to 5e was because it fixed a lot of the stupid complicated rules issues that afflicted 3e.

What's wrong with negative or positive energy? Also it actually is in 5e still in tiny amounts.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1028232Wait, the playtest rulebook comes in a deluxe foil-embossed collector's version? What the hell?

Quote from: Celestial;1028234Sad part is that people will buy it.

FFG Star Wars managed to get people to actually pay for demo versions. Seems like Paizo is going to try how far you can stretch this business model...

Quote from: RandyB;1028305And useful for cooking, drinking, cleaning, bathing, and as the medium for a number of healthy recreational activities.

You forgot to specifically mention useful for  brewing beer.  This should have been mentioned first.  

Does anyone find it unusual to have the playtest announced 5 months before it actually begins?  That seems a rather lengthy period of time.  I hear that 60 days, more or less, is about right for this sort of thing.  People lose interest and wander off after that.  Come August, if I remember, I'll download the PDF ruleset.  There may something interesting to it.

There are to be demo games at GaryCon, according to the Paizo.

Quote from: 3rik;1028331FFG Star Wars managed to get people to actually pay for demo versions. Seems like Paizo is going to try how far you can stretch this business model...

Paizo sold hard copies of their 1st edition play test too.  Some people really REALLY don't like PDFS.

Quote from: Franky;1028332You forgot to specifically mention useful for  brewing beer.  This should have been mentioned first.  

I did say "drinking".