Quote from: S'mon;1101584Well in 1e I could play a Ftr-1 and take some fun feats like power attack and cleave. The 2e ftr-1 feats are appalling.

I will take your word for it as I have not read the official rules yet. Again not surprised though. Majes me wonder if they are making many things in the rules suboptimal preemptively before PFS gets their claws into the rules.from the loojs of it they never will learn that terrible feats etc with fluff are still terrible imo.

Quote from: S'mon;1101567Being made to choose from a bunch of crappy feats on level up is definitely a big downer for me.

Ok, lets talk a little about feat design.  Some of the things that I have heard the Paizo designers talk about was trying to remove feat chains from the game, so that you did not need to pick up a crappy feat to get to the good stuff.  They also did not want you to have to sit down and plan out your character for its whole 20 level span so that you dont pick the "wrong" feats as you are leveling up.  And a third thing was trying to make sure that any one feat was so much better then anything else that it turned into a must have, which essentially destroys your choice if there is only one real choice.

And to be fair I think that they have hit their targets pretty well.  There are some feats that have lower level feats as requirements but they seem to be for the character that has their "thing" and want to get better at that thing.  Like, for example 2nd level Brutish Shove allows you to make an attack and push someone, 4th level Powerful shove lets you Brutish shove someone two sizes larger then you and 12th level Flinging Shove lets you push them further and even push them on a failure.  So they dont gatekeep pushing behind a feat chain instead allowing you to get better at your thing that you like your character to do.

So some people could call Powerful shove a crappy feat and on the other hand when you realise that your Fighter can start to push Huge Ancient Dragons around the battlefield, it does not seem so crappy.

Quote from: S'mon;1101584Well in 1e I could play a Ftr-1 and take some fun feats like power attack and cleave. The 2e ftr-1 feats are appalling.

So PF1 Power attack is fun and PF2 Power attack is appalling?

And PF1 Fighter 1 doing one attack per round is fun and PF2 Fighter 1 doing three attacks per round (with out needing to have cleave) is appalling?

I just want to make sure that I understand the true horror that you are seeing here.

Quote from: Morblot;1101569Doesn't matter what you choose from the limited options available, you'll end up not getting much anyway. It's communist game design.

Communist game design?

Can you explain what you mean by that exactly because choosing from a limited options does not seem inherently communistic.

If we look at the definition of Communism "a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs" how exactly does that apply to game design?

Quote from: Kevin197;1101556That is true however at the same time if memory serves 1E stayed in the high rankings for muuuch longer than 2E has

Are you sure?  Originally Pathfinder 1 came from a very small company known for its production of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.  It does not seem logical that initial sales of Pathfinder 1 would rank highly in sales data at all.

If I remember Erik Mona correctly he said that sales of Core Pathfinder books increased over time as, I am guessing, players left DnD 4e for Pathfinder.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1101539One Thing: I wish Paizo had brought an emphasis on theater of the mind combat over heavy grid-dependency to PF2. I flipped through the PF2 book for a couple of hours and could see several things that rely heavily upon the grid, and I've seen reviews that say the same. I thought grid-based combat was a drag in 3e & 4e so I'm glad it's heavily downplayed in 5e.

I had my second session of Age of Ashes on Thursday.  We had three encounters all using TotM and it seem to play just as well as Pathfinder 1 or 3e.

I dont know what improvements that 5e has made to running TotM?

Quote from: Shasarak;1101618Can you explain what you mean by that exactly because choosing from a limited options does not seem inherently communistic.

They had elections in the Soviet Union, you know. And starvation.

I've answered your question, now answer mine. How much are Paizo paying you for shilling their shitass game?

Quote from: Morblot;1101624They had elections in the Soviet Union, you know. And starvation.

I've answered your question, now answer mine. How much are Paizo paying you for shilling their shitass game?

The shit ass game you have never played because its too communistic?  :confused:

Quote from: Shasarak;1101617So PF1 Power attack is fun and PF2 Power attack is appalling?

And PF1 Fighter 1 doing one attack per round is fun and PF2 Fighter 1 doing three attacks per round (with out needing to have cleave) is appalling?

I just want to make sure that I understand the true horror that you are seeing here.

3 attacks/round is not a Feat thing. I thought it sounded cool until I realised they were keeping iterative attack penalties. :mad:

PF1 Power Attack 2hw is certainly powerful -  https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat/

PF2 Power Attack:

 POWER ATTACK [TWO-ACTIONS] FEAT 1
Fighter Flourish
You unleash a particularly powerful attack that clobbers your foe but leaves you a bit unsteady. Make a melee Strike. This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty. If this Strike hits you deal an extra die of weapon damage. If you're at least 10th level increase this to two extra dice, and if you're at least 18th level increase it to three extra dice.


Hm, if I'm not missing something I probably will take this. Looks like it does not have any to-hit penalty? This + Raise Shield looks like a good way to avoid iterative attack penalties, which I really hate.

Edit: The feats I was going through with the GM on Sunday, it was all "this looks good - oh wait, it's TWO actions?" Or "What, you mean I can't use this unless I already have a to-hit penalty?" - and it all seemed really fiddly and trivial.

Quote from: sureshot;1101554Honestly I get that perhaps Shasarak may be promoting PF 2E too much I rather see someone passionate about an rpg (though not to the extent of the guy who published Zweihander) than just a round table of "It's different I don't like it it's crap" that to many forums descend into. I just don't get the hostility I'm seeing towards the poster.

Its a sad day when you get accused of loving RPGs too much on a board for discussing RPGs.  

But the hostility is most likely just because I am a Non Binary Communist Nazi SJW Paizo shill.  But a guys got to eat, I mean a person.

Quote from: S'mon;11016283 attacks/round is not a Feat thing. I thought it sounded cool until I realised they were keeping iterative attack penalties. :mad:

PF1 Power Attack 2hw is certainly powerful -  https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat/

PF2 Power Attack:

 POWER ATTACK [TWO-ACTIONS] FEAT 1
Fighter Flourish
You unleash a particularly powerful attack that clobbers your foe but leaves you a bit unsteady. Make a melee Strike. This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty. If this Strike hits you deal an extra die of weapon damage. If you're at least 10th level increase this to two extra dice, and if you're at least 18th level increase it to three extra dice.


Hm, if I'm not missing something I probably will take this. Looks like it does not have any to-hit penalty? This + Raise Shield looks like a good way to avoid iterative attack penalties, which I really hate.

Edit: The feats I was going through with the GM on Sunday, it was all "this looks good - oh wait, it's TWO actions?" Or "What, you mean I can't use this unless I already have a to-hit penalty?" - and it all seemed really fiddly and trivial.

Thats exactly what I mean, how is PF2 Power attack worse then PF1 Power Attack when you actually look at it?  It does what it says right on the tin, let you make a powerful attack and better then that you dont suffer any penalties to make it.

And you may think that you hate iterative attack penalties but just wait until your character is staring down the barrel of an angry Grauladon after you realise that your Power Attack just made it angry and that it also has three actions that it can use to attack with.

Quote from: Shasarak;1101626The shit ass game you have never played because its too communistic?  :confused:

No. More like the shitass game I don't feel like buying after burning my hands with the playtest version a year ago. (I now have that motherfucking faux leather book in a box in the basement because I don't even want to look at it on my shelf.) I also don't personally know anyone who bought it or is even considering buying it, so how would I play it? Even the local Society people seem to be playing old 1e scenarios instead.

Whatever. I guess I should know better than giving you more attention.

Quote from: Shasarak;1101630Thats exactly what I mean, how is PF2 Power attack worse then PF1 Power Attack when you actually look at it?  It does what it says right on the tin, let you make a powerful attack and better then that you dont suffer any penalties to make it.

And you may think that you hate iterative attack penalties but just wait until your character is staring down the barrel of an angry Grauladon after you realise that your Power Attack just made it angry and that it also has three actions that it can use to attack with.

If it counts as two, doesnt it get a -5 for being the second, or does it only count as two attacks after you make it?

Quote from: HappyDaze;1101642If it counts as two, doesnt it get a -5 for being the second, or does it only count as two attacks after you make it?

It counts as two after you do it, so any further attacks would get a penalty.

Roll For Combat, Pathfinder: The Fall of Plaguestone Actual Play Podcast

In this first episode, you'll meet our intrepid crew as they travel through the rolling countryside of the Five Kings range on their way to Almas, when trouble descends upon them!  

Traveling in the caravan are Brixley Silverthorn, the Gnome Champion Liberator; Cade Thistlerot, the Halfing Rogue Thief; Celes Karvasalon, the Human Angelic Sorcerer; and Prue Frosthammer, the Half-Orc Spirit Barbarian. Welcome to Plaguestone!

[video=youtube;GvIHwBcOAMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvIHwBcOAMM[/youtube]