Man I am sick of these threads about how much 5e sucks donkey balls, so time to spread around that love.

It turns out that Pathfinder 2 was not as perfect as those Paizo shills would have you believe so now we have errata, another 5 pages to pad out that already impressive tome of bullet stopping.

Find it here now for your amusement and edification.

Ha!!!

5 pages is not that bad. Compared to 100.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;11126515 pages is not that bad. Compared to 100.

How many is that kickstarter Traveller up to?

Is the errata just clarifications? Or actual rules goofs?

5e D&D for example had quite a bit of goofs. But once those were fixed in later print runs all thats left is errata of the rules clarification sort.

Pathfinder 2 isn't dead yet ? How droll.

1. They corrected the small, easy stuff to correct;
2. They punted on the difficult stuff to correct with a disclaimer saying they're taking longer to work on a better fix for those things - which is rough because it's those things people actually needed the fix for, not the easy stuff. I am not saying that's necessarily a bad decision though, just one which is prone to irritate some impatient players.
3. This is the first time they have done this without a new print run to go along with it. Which could mean nothing, or it could mean a lot, concerning their existing unsold first run inventory.
4. People have already found four errors in this short errata (meaningful ones, not just grammar or spelling). Which I find mildly amusing.
5. The backpack/bulk rules are not functioning as intended, no matter which interpretation people are using. It either results in an incredibly complicated character sheet where you track items twice depending on where they are stored at that moment, or it results in a shorthand of just -2 bulk and an abuse loophole of wearing plate mail and just a backpack to make it weigh less. And then whichever method you use, you then run into the issue of having to re-calculate bulk every time a weapon is removed from a sheath or an item from a container (plus apparently a starting character package of equipment ends up weighing less than the items obtained separately). It's just not a system worth this level of complexity. I suspect people will just handwaive it pretty quickly.

Quote from: Mistwell;11126845. The backpack/bulk rules are not functioning as intended, no matter which interpretation people are using. It either results in an incredibly complicated character sheet where you track items twice depending on where they are stored at that moment, or it results in a shorthand of just -2 bulk and an abuse loophole of wearing plate mail and just a backpack to make it weigh less. And then whichever method you use, you then run into the issue of having to re-calculate bulk every time a weapon is removed from a sheath or an item from a container (plus apparently a starting character package of equipment ends up weighing less than the items obtained separately). It's just not a system worth this level of complexity. I suspect people will just handwaive it pretty quickly.

I find the bulk system in Starfinder works just great. It's far easier to do encumbrance with bigger numbers, a 1 handed "thing" sword, shield, etc, being 1 bulk is a super-easy to remember. It's altogether a great compromise between not using encumbrance and tracking every coin.
How did PF2 fuck this up?

What reason is there to even buy a physical fucking game book if there are going to be PAGES worth of errata after the fact? That's just fucking dumb. Does Paizo even offer PDF versions of their products? May as well just get that and re-download every time they add more shit; at this rate your physical products will literally be rendered obsolete in its own fucking edition lifespan. "Oh hey guys, yea I brought my books - err, shit, forgot my 50-page errata binder. Guess we'll just play something else tonight, then..."

But yeah, at least it's not Traveller-bad.

Strange Paizo normally does not do errata until a new print run. They must feel like the rules in their current form are hurting sales enough that they will not move all of the current print run.

The errata to backpacks says:

"The first 2 Bulk of items in your backpack don't count against your Bulk limits."

So I am not sure how anyone can interpret that as making Plate Mail weigh less or in fact getting confused about which item is where.

Maybe, just maybe, if they had spent more time writing the damn rules and revising them instead of writing a frigging sermon about how people should play this wouldn't be necessary.

Also am I crazy or some of the "errata" is due to politically incorrect language?

Quote Changes to Greater Juggernaut, Greater resolve, improved evasion, and Third Path to Perfection

All four of these abilities grant a two-tier benefit on a failed saving throw of the specified type, but (as always) no ability will ever change your degree of success by more than one step. To clarify, we're making the following clarification to all four abilities. Change the beginning of the last sentence from  "When  you  fail"  the  listed  saving  throw  to  "When  you roll a failure on" the listed saving throw.  

Sure seems like PC newspeak to me.

I think that the problem is that many RPGs don't seem to go through much playtesting, and they use a print run as a playtest substitute. Strange in the case of Pathfinder, as there was a playtest version you could buy in advance of the real thing, but when a game has strange rules errors it often points out something that should have been caught in playtest..

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1112739Also am I crazy or some of the "errata" is due to politically incorrect language?

Sure seems like PC newspeak to me.

No, in this case it is because you are crazy.  In more simple terms you can roll a failure or a critical failure (or a success or critical success) and they dont want you to be able to turn a critical failure into a success (or I guess a failure into a critical success which is also a two step change)

Quote from: finarvyn;1112741I think that the problem is that many RPGs don't seem to go through much playtesting, and they use a print run as a playtest substitute. Strange in the case of Pathfinder, as there was a playtest version you could buy in advance of the real thing, but when a game has strange rules errors it often points out something that should have been caught in playtest..

That is a funny story about when you play test the game, decide to change the rules based on that play testing and yet the wrong rules still make it through to the final product.  Or in this case both the playtest rules and the new final rules.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1112693What reason is there to even buy a physical fucking game book if there are going to be PAGES worth of errata after the fact? That's just fucking dumb.

If I recall right, Paizo, like WOTC, folds any errata/fixes into later print runs?