Quote from: Fergurg;1112839You're kidding, right?

Besides the whole section dedicated to promoting the X Card and the whole "choose your pronouns" bit in 2nd edition

For the first part, where in the book is that? I see a few tame sentences about inclusivity (the sermon from the playtest book didn't make it into the release). I see no mention of an X card, touching a flower, etc.

I did find the second part: "Characters of all genders are equally likely to become adventurers. Record your character's gender, if applicable, and their pronouns on the third page of the character sheet.". The horror.

Both of those together account for maybe a quarter of a page in the book, so less than 1/2400 of the material. While it is higher than zero, to me it is pretty insignificant.

For the rest, I've heard about "all the gays" before, and that all of the NPCs were presumed to be gay unless otherwise noted. You are saying its only a third now. For that and the other things you mentioned, are those actually in a published book? Which one(s)? I've asked before and haven't gotten an answer yet. Is just someone's blog or on a video or something? I find their adventure and setting material to be pretty mediocre and don't buy a whole lot of it, I really don't know.

Regarding critical hits/failures, I can't think of an RPG that doesn't have some type of critical hit. They may call it an "extreme" success or a Red FEAT roll or something else, but its there. Critical Failure in PF2 is often a kind of reverse critical hit for spells (take double damage from the Fireball if you get a Critical Failure). Characters aren't hitting themselves with their own weapon or zapping themselves or the like.

Regarding errata itself, bigger players than Paizo, like Wizards and Games Workshop also put out a lot of errata for their products. Assuming that being perfect the first time just isn't feasible, what solution would you prefer as an alternative to published errata?

Personally, I think it's great that we live in a time where it's so easy to disseminate FAQs and rules errata for books. In ye olden days, you'd have to wait for it to get mentioned in Dragon magazine, if you're lucky, and the next edition if you weren't.
Though that did mean we had to learn to deal with it ourselves, and not rely on some golden scroll to descend from heaven giving us the OK to change a monster's AC or whatnot.

Quote from: Fergurg;1112839You're kidding, right?

Besides the whole section dedicated to promoting the X Card and the whole "choose your pronouns" bit in 2nd edition, we have the declaration that all good societies allow homosexual marriage, a traditionally Lawful Good god being changed to Lawful Neutral because of the doctrine that mothers should be the stay-at-home parent (and the product manager stating that he should have been declared evil for that reason), an atheist nation whose key to stability and prosperity is oppressing all religions, about a third of the population being homosexual or transsexual, stating that it is impossible to be both evil and working against slavery, and literally declaring the demon of tyranny to also be the demon of misogyny.

I would ask what more needs to happen to be considered "woke" but I can't figure how what more "wokeness" they can cram into their setting.

Let's not forget changing "race" because of a fear that it might promote people believing that real-life races are as different as the ones in game.

And the retconning of Iconics.

Paizo is definitaly woke.  Arguments that they aren't "peak" woke are relatively useless, primarily because there is no limit to stupidity...

Quote from: Mistwell;1112848I am not kidding. You're pretty sheltered if you think this is "very woke". This is very mild.

So what would it take? Demanding all game sessions start with burning an American flag and trampling on a crucifix? Or are they saving that for the opening of PaizoCon 2021?

Quote from: Eirikrautha;1112882Let's not forget changing "race" because of a fear that it might promote people believing that real-life races are as different as the ones in game.

If you dont change Race to Ancestry then you can not have the A B C's of character creation.  You dont want to end up with the 3 Rs of Reading, Writing and Arithmetic now, do you?

QuoteAnd the retconning of Iconics.

We did need a Goblin iconic.

Quote from: Shasarak;1112887We did need a Goblin iconic.

Imo not really. Paizo including Goblins as a playable race is just them trying to tap into the WOW demographic. Given how up until 2E no one in their own game world of Golarion liked the damn pests, Paizo retconning it was just plain dumb. I would have included Kobolds as a playable and iconic race instead.

Quote from: sureshot;1112888Imo not really. Paizo including Goblins as a playable race is just them trying to tap into the WOW demographic. Given how up until 2E no one in their own game world of Golarion liked the damn pests, Paizo retconning it was just plain dumb. I would have included Kobolds as a playable and iconic race instead.

Goblins are the iconic Paizo monster race so it makes sense to include them.  Kobolds have more of a Kobold Press sort of vibe going on, too me that is.

I dont see it as a Retcon because you still have the normal crazy ass Goblins and now you also have some that are PCs.  It would be pretty racist just to right off the whole...ancestry

If Pathfinder 2 is anything like Starfinder, hard pass. Way too complicated for an RPG.

And I don’t mean too dense or too many rules, I mean hundreds of special cases that must be applied lest you piss off some rules lawyer. Give me C&S any day.

Quote from: Fergurg;1112839You're kidding, right?

Besides the whole section dedicated to promoting the X Card and the whole "choose your pronouns" bit in 2nd edition, we have the declaration that all good societies allow homosexual marriage, a traditionally Lawful Good god being changed to Lawful Neutral because of the doctrine that mothers should be the stay-at-home parent (and the product manager stating that he should have been declared evil for that reason), an atheist nation whose key to stability and prosperity is oppressing all religions, about a third of the population being homosexual or transsexual, stating that it is impossible to be both evil and working against slavery, and literally declaring the demon of tyranny to also be the demon of misogyny.

I would ask what more needs to happen to be considered "woke" but I can't figure how what more "wokeness" they can cram into their setting.

*Blinks* Egads, that's terrible!

Quote from: Brad;1112893If Pathfinder 2 is anything like Starfinder, hard pass. Way too complicated for an RPG.

And I don't mean too dense or too many rules, I mean hundreds of special cases that must be applied lest you piss off some rules lawyer. Give me C&S any day.

Starfinder is a better system than PF2e...

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1112883So what would it take? Demanding all game sessions start with burning an American flag and trampling on a crucifix? Or are they saving that for the opening of PaizoCon 2021?

Dude it's not Blue Rose. It's suffering the "Looking for SJW content" syndrome. If you LOOK for anything expecting to find it, you will find it. Taking the entire sum of the rules as a whole, the instances of some issue which can be made of a rule are incredibly small. It's pretty minor stuff overall. It's not far out of line with content in other fields. I just think people are hunting for any hint of it right now, and of course finding it and spinning it as best they can to make a case.

The point being missed or ignored is that their was no need for them to include the two pages on them suddenly being woke. All it would have taken was perhaps different phrasing along the lines of " Don't be a jerk, treat others with respect. If one is uncomfortable with the style of campaign talk it over with the table or look for a new table. Dms read the table and make sure to find out what is or is not acceptable to allow into a campaign with players ." Them advising potential DMs and players to play at being a psychologist is not only foolish but also dangerous. Made worse that they don't truly care about being Woke or Social Justice. Just jumping on the bandwagon to get a few dollars more from fans who truly care about being both.

You guys jumping on the "wokeness" are missing Golden opportunities to bitch about how boring and bland the system is.

I see potential in the new system. Unlike some I don't use my dislike of any rpg that is not a favored rpg as an excuse to take a dump on PF2 .

Is it innovative imo no. Neither is it the worst thing ever. Rifts is full of boring and bland OCCs beyond my dislike of the rules I would still play in a campaign with a good GM.

We get it Rhedyn anything you don't like as an rpg is the shits as far as you concerned. Many of us think differently

Quote from: Mistwell;1112991It's not far out of line with content in other fields.

  The depressing thing is, you're probably right. And as I got tired of Paizo's approach to the property and the game back in their Dragon days and have never had any real interest in PF, and they don't want me as part of their audience, I should probably recuse myself from the discussion.