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Author Topic: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology  (Read 503 times)

Jam The MF

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Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« on: June 16, 2021, 08:01:57 PM »
Are there any depictions of the official cosmology in Pathfinder 1st Edition; and are there very many differences between it and the D&D 5E cosmology?  I realize it started out as a spinoff of D&D 3.5

I realize this forum isn't exactly a hotbed, of Paizo fandom; but I have a large pile of their books for 1E, especially the Bestiaries.  Just tons of content.  Way more Celestials than one could ever need.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 12:14:59 AM by Jam The MF »
So many rulesets, and so little time....

S'mon

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 03:21:07 AM »
It's pretty similar https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Great_Beyond

I'd say the main notional difference is that the Abyss surrounds everything, so we're all embedded in an infinite sea of Chaotic Evil. :)

Jam The MF

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2021, 05:57:48 AM »
It's pretty similar https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Great_Beyond

I'd say the main notional difference is that the Abyss surrounds everything, so we're all embedded in an infinite sea of Chaotic Evil. :)


I appreciate it.
So many rulesets, and so little time....

Shemmy

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2021, 03:06:03 PM »
I wrote a majority of the PF1 cosmology content as a freelancer, so feel free to ask any questions of me.

One caveat to a post above, the Abyss doesn't quite surround everything else. The Maelstrom does, with the Maelstrom and the Abyss best viewed as two antithetical realities that collided with one another, to the detriment of both, and the primordial conflict between their inhabitants having set the stage for later evolution in the structure of the overall PF cosmology.
 

Jam The MF

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2021, 03:42:03 PM »
I wrote a majority of the PF1 cosmology content as a freelancer, so feel free to ask any questions of me.

One caveat to a post above, the Abyss doesn't quite surround everything else. The Maelstrom does, with the Maelstrom and the Abyss best viewed as two antithetical realities that collided with one another, to the detriment of both, and the primordial conflict between their inhabitants having set the stage for later evolution in the structure of the overall PF cosmology.


Thanks.

I can wrap my head around the Great Wheel cosmology, as conveniently printed in the D&D 5E PHB; and I can also wrap my head around the spin WOTC gave the cosmology back in 4E.  I own the Manual of the Planes, for 3E and 4E.

I have several, to many thousands of pages of PF hardbacks; and I'm not seeing the quick, simple, easy presentation of the cosmology.  Knowledge of it appears to be assumed?  There are different planes named, and different celestials / outsiders around every corner.

For PF 1E to have been D&D 3.XX; it seemed to throw a lot at the wall in a hurry?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 04:36:59 PM by Jam The MF »
So many rulesets, and so little time....

Shemmy

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2021, 05:50:38 PM »
Thanks.

I can wrap my head around the Great Wheel cosmology, as conveniently printed in the D&D 5E PHB; and I can also wrap my head around the spin WOTC gave the cosmology back in 4E.  I own the Manual of the Planes, for 3E and 4E.

I have several, to many thousands of pages of PF hardbacks; and I'm not seeing the quick, simple, easy presentation of the cosmology.  Knowledge of it appears to be assumed?  There are different planes named, and different celestials / outsiders around every corner.

For PF 1E to have been D&D 3.XX; it seemed to throw a lot at the wall in a hurry?

The first presentation of the PF1 cosmology is in a distinct cosmology chapter in the original PF1 'Inner Sea World Guide' the core setting book which gives a concise overview of the cosmology, and it was later expanded on with a book of its own 'The Great Beyond: A Guide to the Multiverse'.

PF2E includes a primer on the cosmology in the 2E Gamemastery Guide in a chapter of its own.

I wrote the above three FWIW.

I personally think that PF benefits from having had a cosmology in mind at the outset of the core setting and natives for those planes in mind, whereas D&D had a slow and not necessarily planned in advance development and population of its cosmology. But of course YMMV.
 

Jam The MF

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2021, 10:41:29 PM »
Thanks.

I can wrap my head around the Great Wheel cosmology, as conveniently printed in the D&D 5E PHB; and I can also wrap my head around the spin WOTC gave the cosmology back in 4E.  I own the Manual of the Planes, for 3E and 4E.

I have several, to many thousands of pages of PF hardbacks; and I'm not seeing the quick, simple, easy presentation of the cosmology.  Knowledge of it appears to be assumed?  There are different planes named, and different celestials / outsiders around every corner.

For PF 1E to have been D&D 3.XX; it seemed to throw a lot at the wall in a hurry?

The first presentation of the PF1 cosmology is in a distinct cosmology chapter in the original PF1 'Inner Sea World Guide' the core setting book which gives a concise overview of the cosmology, and it was later expanded on with a book of its own 'The Great Beyond: A Guide to the Multiverse'.

PF2E includes a primer on the cosmology in the 2E Gamemastery Guide in a chapter of its own.

I wrote the above three FWIW.

I personally think that PF benefits from having had a cosmology in mind at the outset of the core setting and natives for those planes in mind, whereas D&D had a slow and not necessarily planned in advance development and population of its cosmology. But of course YMMV.


I don't own the Inner Sea World Guide, or The Great Beyond: a Guide to the Multiverse. 

I do own the encyclopedic Core Rulebook, Strategy Guide, Gamemastery Guide, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, the NPC Codex, Monster Codex, and all 6 of the Bestiaries.  Plus the Beginner's Box, the Dragons Unleashed Campaign Setting, and the Bestiary 1 Pawns.  And in all of that, there isn't very much cosmology information.  I've had to just treat it as equivalent to the 3E & 5E cosmology.

But then there are so many Celestials / outsiders, and planes, and some of the names are different.....  It's overwhelming; because this isn't my only RPG, or even my only hobby.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 07:42:08 PM by Jam The MF »
So many rulesets, and so little time....

sureshot

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2021, 12:04:19 AM »
I don't own the Inner Sea World Guide, or The Great Beyond: a Guide to the Multiverse. 

I would purchase Inner Sea World guide asap as it expands on the world of Golarion and I think the Cosmology. Inner Sea Gods has almost all the Golarion gods in one place and Planar adventures is an updated version of the guide to the multiverse.

Jam The MF

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2021, 07:48:59 PM »
I don't own the Inner Sea World Guide, or The Great Beyond: a Guide to the Multiverse. 

I would purchase Inner Sea World guide asap as it expands on the world of Golarion and I think the Cosmology. Inner Sea Gods has almost all the Golarion gods in one place and Planar adventures is an updated version of the guide to the multiverse.


I had a productive road trip today!!!  I visited 3 local gaming related locations, and I picked up "Planar Adventures"; which appears to address what I started this thread about.  I also picked up the missing piece for my set of PF 1E Bestiaries.  I needed to get those hardcovers while they were still available.  Happy Father's Day to me!!!
So many rulesets, and so little time....

sureshot

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2021, 09:01:35 PM »
I don't own the Inner Sea World Guide, or The Great Beyond: a Guide to the Multiverse. 

I would purchase Inner Sea World guide asap as it expands on the world of Golarion and I think the Cosmology. Inner Sea Gods has almost all the Golarion gods in one place and Planar adventures is an updated version of the guide to the multiverse.


I had a productive road trip today!!!  I visited 3 local gaming related locations, and I picked up "Planar Adventures"; which appears to address what I started this thread about.  I also picked up the missing piece for my set of PF 1E Bestiaries.  I needed to get those hardcovers while they were still available.  Happy Father's Day to me!!!

Glad that I was able to help a fellow gamer.

I would definitely buy Inner Sea guide and Inner Sea Gods both at least for 1E are a must buy for DMs imo. Their is an additional book for Golarion gods called Inner Sea Faiths which is in softcover and covers additional gods not coveted in the the hardcover. I would also purchase Inner sea Races to get more info on other non-core races. The 2E version of both books are disappointing imo. The same price as 1E yet less content.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2021, 09:08:08 PM by sureshot »

Jam The MF

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 05:50:10 PM »
I wrote a majority of the PF1 cosmology content as a freelancer, so feel free to ask any questions of me.

One caveat to a post above, the Abyss doesn't quite surround everything else. The Maelstrom does, with the Maelstrom and the Abyss best viewed as two antithetical realities that collided with one another, to the detriment of both, and the primordial conflict between their inhabitants having set the stage for later evolution in the structure of the overall PF cosmology.


I appreciate you jumping in, on this thread.
So many rulesets, and so little time....

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2021, 10:12:25 PM »
PF cosmology is basically a ripoff of Planescape but with 9 outer planes rather than 18.

I prefer Mongoose’s Book of the Planes cosmology. It’s more original.

Jam The MF

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2021, 03:43:18 AM »
PF cosmology is basically a ripoff of Planescape but with 9 outer planes rather than 18.

I prefer Mongoose’s Book of the Planes cosmology. It’s more original.


I see what you're talking about; but I actually prefer having fewer planes in the cosmology, rather than more.  How many good aligned and evil aligned planes does it take, to construct your cosmology?  I am surprised that the number of planes was actually reduced in Pathfinder 1E, compared to say D&D 3.5; but they still "easily" filled up 6 Bestiaries with potential adversaries.   Perhaps the Great Wheel was overkill, anyway?
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Eirikrautha

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2021, 06:23:58 AM »
PF cosmology is basically a ripoff of Planescape but with 9 outer planes rather than 18.

I prefer Mongoose’s Book of the Planes cosmology. It’s more original.


I see what you're talking about; but I actually prefer having fewer planes in the cosmology, rather than more.  How many good aligned and evil aligned planes does it take, to construct your cosmology?  I am surprised that the number of planes was actually reduced in Pathfinder 1E, compared to say D&D 3.5; but they still "easily" filled up 6 Bestiaries with potential adversaries.   Perhaps the Great Wheel was overkill, anyway?

Well, this ignores the different ways the two cosmologies were developed.  The D&D cosmology was created through accretion.  As each new realm/mythos was added, there needed to be a place for those deities to reside, and it didn't make sense for them to "share" heavens.  Golarion's cosmology had the benefit of both coming after D&D's, and also being developed in a more unified fashion.  So not really a fair comparison.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Pathfinder 1st Edition Cosmology
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2021, 08:51:10 AM »
PF cosmology is basically a ripoff of Planescape but with 9 outer planes rather than 18.

I prefer Mongoose’s Book of the Planes cosmology. It’s more original.
Considering PF was a reskin/mod of D&D 3.5E, that should not shock you.