Palladium renames itself...

jrients · October 13, 2006, 10:47:36 AM

Green Ronin took donations? I did not know that.

Gabriel · October 13, 2006, 10:48:03 AM

Quote from: McrowYes, they did. In fact Kevin refused to take donations in the begining. Eventually one of the fans setup a paypal account and started taking the dontations. So Palladium gave in an asked that fan to stop taking dontations and setup their own paypal account.

I call "SHILL" on that bit. I remember reading the threads in question, and the whole thing was very fishy.

Quote from: McrowWhile I didn't buy a print, I did choose to buy more of their books to support them. If you are not a Palladium fan, I truely don't understand why you care.

Then you haven't drunk the Kool Aid.

The problem isn't with people who are buying books they want in normal business transactions. The problem is that Kevin Siembieda is actively playing on his years of projecting his company as an intimate family in order to take money from fans in a manner identical to evangelical con artists.

blakkie · October 13, 2006, 10:51:43 AM

Quote from: HinterWeltHere, here! I often wonder about the double standard. I can only think it is because Chris is more diplomatic than Kevin.

I think the key has already been mentioned.

Quote from: SettembriniGimme Product!

I believe that Green Ronin came up with actual products, or at least solid product ideas. Yes, they presold them quite a ways out and that's asking a lot. But it is still actual gaming product. Now if they miss on those deliveries? I haven't watched it that closely, any word on that?

brettmb2 · October 13, 2006, 10:53:01 AM

Quote from: HinterWeltHere, here! I often wonder about the double standard. I can only think it is because Chris is more diplomatic than Kevin.

Bill

See, I didn't even know Green Ronin was having problems. I saw some posts about freelancer something or other, but I never looked. You can't miss the Palladium posts. I suppose since Palladium has been around longer, there are a lot of people who don't like them.

While I'm no d20/OGL fan, I do like Green Ronin products in theory. But my history with Palladium goes back to the original Robotech game, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Still, I wouldn't wish either company ill, but I really take issue with asking for money from fans and giving nothing decent in return (t-shirts, prints, etc.).

Mcrow · October 13, 2006, 10:54:16 AM

Quote from: GabrielI call "SHILL" on that bit. I remember reading the threads in question, and the whole thing was very fishy.

Then you haven't drunk the Kool Aid.

The problem isn't with people who are buying books they want in normal business transactions. The problem is that Kevin Siembieda is actively playing on his years of projecting his company as an intimate family in order to take money from fans in a manner identical to evangelical con artists.

I don't see it that way. IMO, Kevin is just more passionate about his company that I think most gaming company owners are. Sometimes he can be a little over dramtic, but I respect someone who does care as much about his company as he does.

I think he has been (as a whole) good to his fans. Have you ever talked to Kevin before? I have, this year @ Gencon, and he is really a nice guy. I Know many other who will say the same. Most of the time when the players say they want X book or whatever Palladium gave it to them. Sure kevin has had his moments and there were certainly some issues with freelancers, but to call him a fraud is just plain wrong.

Mcrow · October 13, 2006, 10:57:04 AM

Quote from: pigames.netStill, I wouldn't wish either company ill, but I really take issue with asking for money from fans and giving nothing decent in return (t-shirts, prints, etc.).

I think the number of PB fans that buy the prints and what-not are few in comparison to those who just decied to buy more books.

That said if someone thinks a print is worth $40 or whatever it was and they buy it, they did get what they being sold.

Balbinus · October 13, 2006, 10:57:25 AM

I think they are abusing the gullibility of much of their fanbase to leech money from them, I think some of their activities in the UK at least would be of questionable legality and I think this is close to being more of an investment fraud than a gaming company.

As to why I care, I don't much, but I tend to look down rather on such obvious attempts at scamming people. If one is going to con people out of their cash one should at least put a little effort in.

Lawbag · October 13, 2006, 10:59:35 AM

Quote from: BalbinusSNIP... I think some of their activities in the UK at least would be of questionable legality and I think this is close to being more of an investment fraud than a gaming company.

...SNIP

care to elaborate?

Mcrow · October 13, 2006, 11:01:56 AM

Quote from: BalbinusI think they are abusing the gullibility of much of their fanbase to leech money from them, I think some of their activities in the UK at least would be of questionable legality and I think this is close to being more of an investment fraud than a gaming company.

As to why I care, I don't much, but I tend to look down rather on such obvious attempts at scamming people. If one is going to con people out of their cash one should at least put a little effort in.

.

OK, I have had it with all of the cries of fraud.

Where is there any evidence? PB has court records (availible to the public) that show how much was stolen and who did and that that person was convicted of the crime.

Since when is it fraud to say "hey we are in some financial trouble. If you would like to continue to see our games, please buy more of them. If you wont something else, you can buy this print, glasses or whatever." I don't know how that is fraud.

Balbinus · October 13, 2006, 11:04:18 AM

As I recall he claimed amounts of financial loss in his initial appeal that were not borne out, and used those claims of loss (which he would have known were exaggerated) in order to appeal for funds from fans.

In other words, he obtained money by deception.

I don't have access to the original threads anymore, but his initial loss claims were inflated and were shown to be.

The court records showed losses less than those he cited when he originally made his appeal, hence fraud.

Balbinus · October 13, 2006, 11:04:57 AM

Quote from: McrowSince when is it fraud to say "hey we are in some financial trouble. If you would like to continue to see our games, please buy more of them. If you wont something else, you can buy this print, glasses or whatever." I don't know how that is fraud.

That bit isn't fraud, it's preying on the gullible. Unpleasant but not actually illegal.

HinterWelt · October 13, 2006, 11:09:12 AM

Quote from: pigames.netSee, I didn't even know Green Ronin was having problems. I saw some posts about freelancer something or other, but I never looked. You can't miss the Palladium posts. I suppose since Palladium has been around longer, there are a lot of people who don't like them.

While I'm no d20/OGL fan, I do like Green Ronin products in theory. But my history with Palladium goes back to the original Robotech game, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Still, I wouldn't wish either company ill, but I really take issue with asking for money from fans and giving nothing decent in return (t-shirts, prints, etc.).

As do I. I would never have seen anything about Palladium if it had not been for all the complaining. Green Ronin I saw an announcement on RPGNet. In the end, I personally think it is time to close the doors if you need to beg from fans, for whatever reasons.

And, as an aside, I thought there was another company that pulled this to much praise on RPGNet...can't think of them right now. It was before Palladium. It'll come to me.

Bill

Mcrow · October 13, 2006, 11:11:18 AM

Quote from: BalbinusThat bit isn't fraud, it's preying on the gullible. Unpleasant but not actually illegal.

oh, I see Palladium fans are gullible.

Nice.

Gabriel · October 13, 2006, 11:11:29 AM

Quote from: BalbinusAs I recall he claimed amounts of financial loss in his initial appeal that were not borne out, and used those claims of loss (which he would have known were exaggerated) in order to appeal for funds from fans.

He has also classified losses which would be personal in nature (theft of his privately owned collectibles and such) as losses to the company in his various announcements.

Lawbag · October 13, 2006, 11:13:15 AM

Quote from: Mcrowoh, I see Palladium fans are gullible.

Nice.

I think the intention was gullible Palladium fans, not that all Palladium fans are gullible.