Hints that I've gotten elsewhere (especially Websnark) imply that the thievery in question is mostly of physical goods over several years, such as art and products, most likely by disgruntled employees and freelancers.  The estimated value may be quite a ways off.

Theoretical question (because I see this argument bandied about so much for all kinds of things):  Does every loss of a game publisher really hurt the industry as a whole?  If a company is so lousy that they make the industry look bad, then the loss improves the industy's public face (I'm not stating the Palladium is this bad because I haven't been following them.  This is a theoretical argument).  Several fans of a company may mourn the loss, but it may or may not have a financial effect on other companies.

In Palladium's case, I doubt that the loss of the company would have any measurable effect on other publishers.  Rifts is an island on the other side of the planet; there are lots of people who play Rifts and nothing else, and lots of people who have either never played Rifts or who would never buy another Rifts book whether or not the company is around.  Unlike most other rpgs, there doesn't seem to be much overlap between Rifts players and players of other games.

I don't think the loss of quite a few of the d20-boom companies hurt rpgs as a whole.

It's different when there's a large consumer base and no ready substitute, though. I don't know how big Palladium is, or how different its rules/settings are to existing lines, but the d20 companies weren't missed as you could simply buy from other d20 companies.

Quote from: NicephorusDoes every loss of a game publisher really hurt the industry as a whole?

That really depends on whether or not you'd consider this mishmash of publishers, freelancers, and niche consumers to be an "industry."  I'm with Gary Gygax on this one... calling this an "industry" gives everything a lot of dignity that it doesn't necessarily deserve.

Will the loss of Palladium affect other RPG publishers?  Maybe.  It might open wide a few new niche markets that publishers had stayed out of thanks to Palladium.  Palladium books and games will still exist and still circulate, so there's no real basis for arguments that any games will die or go under as a result of Palladium's troubles.  This will certainly affect people; I think that those who stand to lose their jobs to this situation constitute the only real tragedy here.

I should probably let Kevin know that Wendy's is hiring.  That's the best help I can really provide the man.

Quote from: RoudiFunny thing; I think Yamo brings up some legitimate criticisms of Paaladium, and the only retort offered against his assertions have been personal insults hurled at Yamo himself.  Pretty low form, I think.

I haven't heard enough good stories (and heard plenty of credible bad ones) to desire to help Palladium out.  Who knows?  This might be karma.

Although, I do get a weird sort of vibe from Seimbeida's "call for help."  Ever seen those stores that have a "going out of business sale," once a year, every year?  Who never actually seem to go out of business?  Does anyone else get that feeling from this too?

All I really would prefer is the new thread rather than the new post button be pressed. If in doubt start a new thread - threads can always be merged. Once a threadcrap occurs the tenor of a thread can turn in a bad way and be unrectifiable.

Has Palladium made bad decisions? I think so, but if I want to discuss them I'll create another thread for them.

Does this mean that you shouldn't ever voice dissent in a thread? No. There's a world of difference though between "This isn't surprising" then stating why and "Yoo Hoo - they're going bankrupt." One invites discussion, the other is just being hurtful. Like it or not gamers tend to be somewhat protective of the game systems they use and support, and an insult leveled at the game is percieved as an insult at the gamer.  While the occasional flamewar skirmish or even a full borne SWINE war can be fun from time to time, if every thread becomes a flame war then it gets old.

Yamo isn't banned - he's just been dubbed "Jack Ass" then "Dumb Ass" for correcting my spelling. He'll have to put up with that label for a week or so until it wears off then he can go back to a normal avatar.

Remember, you can say what you like concerning any issue without being banned. Just remember that there may be consequences for what you say. -- other users calling you on your shit, or moderators giving you a jack ass avatar for a week.

Freedom goes hand in hand with responsibility.

Palladium has become such a fringe game anymore that I can't see the loss as really detrimental to RPG's as a whole with WotC, WW, SJG, GR, and the various D20 companies (that  seem to be moving to more sustainable OGL product lines) still kicking and taking up MUCH more shelfspace and are much more viable lines (in the sense of reliable release schedules).  I really doubt that the limited availbility in many areas of the Palladium lines are going to put a serious hurt on the RPG industry.  Now in the sense of players that may have been interested only in what Palladium had to offer that's a loss, since they may no longer go into shops and be able to talk to new players there and get them into RPG's.  It's just sad that an old company has been brought down so low.

If any company should have joined the d20 movement IMO it was Palladium. Their root system is very similar to d20 in many ways whether the supporters will admit it or not. However Mr. Siembieda chose to swim against the tide. I mean, at the very least he could have done what White Wolf did and create an imprint that deals with d20. I still would be more open to trying Rifts in a d20 modern form than on it's own system because I simply don't want to learn a new system (much to Basara's chagrin).

So I guess Palladium got hit with a Mega Damage weapon......:heh:

Bad pun. No cookie.

QuoteThere's a world of difference though between "This isn't surprising" then stating why and "Yoo Hoo - they're going bankrupt." One invites discussion, the other is just being hurtful.

So discuss one sentiment and ignore or refute the other. It's what I do.

I'd simply prefer that Palladium Books exit the marketplace at this time and relinguish its IP to a more successful company that can deliver a product worthy of said IP. I'll be happy when this transpires.

I also dislike KS. As much as it's possible to dislike someone based on an online persona, anyway. I have no pity for him. If Palladium Books had other permanent employees that I didn't dislike, I probably would feel pity for them, but as far as I know, it's a one man show.

If these sentiments cross some kind of personal line for you and you find them hurtful, that's fine. If you want to refute them, that's fine.

Oh my.

This is a little like watching someone slam his head into a wall to get to the other side when he was just shown an open door...

Quote from: PookaAll I really would prefer is the new thread rather than the new post button be pressed.

QuoteLike it or not gamers tend to be somewhat protective of the game systems they use and support, and an insult leveled at the game is percieved as an insult at the gamer.

Another note: Gamers may do this, but mature gamers do not. Hobbies aren't religion. If people who get crazy angry when their religious beliefs are questioned are extremists, people who get angry when their mere hobbies are questioned are buffoons.

Perhaps my mistake is not tailoring my posts to the sensibilities of people who read an negative opinion about a fantasy make-believe game and go into paroxysms  of quivering, impotent rage? God, how could I write all my posts with people like that in mind and still look at myself in the mirror?

QuoteHe'll have to put up with that label for a week or so until it wears off then he can go back to a normal avatar.

Actually, I think I'll keep this one.

Quote from: gleichmanOh my.

This is a little like watching someone slam his head into a wall to get to the other side when he was just shown an open door...

It's too late now on my end. If they mods want my posts in a new thread, that's within their power to do.

Quote from: PookaIf any company should have joined the d20 movement IMO it was Palladium. Their root system is very similar to d20 in many ways whether the supporters will admit it or not. However Mr. Siembieda chose to swim against the tide. I mean, at the very least he could have done what White Wolf did and create an imprint that deals with d20. I still would be more open to trying Rifts in a d20 modern form than on it's own system because I simply don't want to learn a new system (much to Basara's chagrin).

I would have loved to see a D20 Rifts books. Sometimes you just want to blow shit up with a big ass robot and a few D100s.

Quote from: AcinonyxI would have loved to see a D20 Rifts books. Sometimes you just want to blow shit up with a big ass robot and a few D100s.

Somewhere, I think I have a fan made Rifts D20 rulebook pdf that looked reasonable based a quick glance.  Better than the Rifts rules anyway.

Quote from: NicephorusSomewhere, I think I have a fan made Rifts D20 rulebook pdf that looked reasonable based a quick glance.  Better than the Rifts rules anyway.

I've found a couple D20 conversions that were OK, but nothing that was all that great.  I got to the point that I just wrote stuff from the ground up and said to hell with a straight conversion in lieu of just trying to get the feel right.