Is this game playable and fun as is, or does it have major structural flaws/limits  that need a massive houseruling effort to remedy?

For purposes of this thread, "lack of class balance" or indeed any rule or element by which Teh Gonzo trumps Teh GURPS, shall not be defined as a major structural flaw/limit.

Note: 1st edition, aka "Palladium Roleplaying Game," not 2nd.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityIs this game playable and fun as is, or does it have major structural flaws/limits  that need a massive houseruling effort to remedy?

For purposes of this thread, "lack of class balance" or indeed any rule or element by which Teh Gonzo trumps Teh GURPS, shall not be defined as a major structural flaw/limit.

Note: 1st edition, aka "Palladium Roleplaying Game," not 2nd.

I played a great non-houseruled campaign of this in 1992 or so. That said, you will be in the content creation business (creating monsters and stuff) if you seriously play it.  

It's a cool game.

I've got the revised edition (black cover w/red type and illo, no MDC, no spell points...I think that's very similar to first?) but, while I've read it a couple times, I haven't played.  However, it looks pretty damned complete to me, though horribly organized.

1st Edition is the best ruleset Palladium ever released.  The rules are remarkably clear, simple, and straightforward, their only flaw being a rather random organization, and a lack of a character sheet to help present some level of structure to the chargen process.

Really, imagine the current snaketangle that is Palladium, stripped back down to it's bare core, back before they started grafting all kinds of random shit to it it was never intended to do, and that's what you've got.  

It's a solid, well done alternate D&D, with a heavier focus on medievalism, and an overall grittier, yet still fairly high magic feel.  

I like it, a lot.  Way more than I ever thought I would.

I freakin' love that game. Echoing previous replies, its main flaw it the horrible organization. Otherwise, it's a great game with a lot of player races, classes, and a shitload of spells, all presented within a playable system. So no, you wouldn't need to houserule the hell out of everything. I played in several games with the rules "as is" and it worked fine.

Further echoing previous replies, it was a cool alternative to AD&D when we need a break from AD&D or whatever other game we were playing at the time. And unlike AD&D, higher level games were still just as sweet as low level games (maybe that's a personal preference with AD&D though; we always found that the game broke at higher levels).

The only thing I didn't like was the setting, or at least most of it.

-=Grim=-

I think all Palladium Games lend themselves to power gamers, as long as you're not worried about a player trying to juice his character or capable of handling that I'd say it'd work fine.

Quote from: J Arcane1st Edition is the best ruleset Palladium ever released.  The rules are remarkably clear, simple, and straightforward, their only flaw being a rather random organization, and a lack of a character sheet to help present some level of structure to the chargen process.

Really, imagine the current snaketangle that is Palladium, stripped back down to it's bare core, back before they started grafting all kinds of random shit to it it was never intended to do, and that's what you've got.

It reminds me a lot, in fact, of the original release of RIFTS - before all the supplements and stuff. Core-RIFTS, circa 1990, looks a lot like core-Palladium Roleplaying Game, 1st edition.

It's interesting how as soon as RIFTS happened Palladium became "Palladium Fantasy" and not just "the Palladium Roleplaying Game". According to at least some accounts I've come across Kevin's original campaigns that inspired PFRPG actually resembled RIFTS a fair amount - or at least, had great heaps of SF tech thrown into the mix (in the classic Blackmoor vein) - but those aspects were toned down for PFRPG. It's like as soon as RIFTS came out PFRPG was no longer the closest representation of Kevin's Game that Palladium had published, and got kicked from flagship line to supplementary line. Which I think is kind of a shame.

OK OK, I'm getting it.

I actually got the Baalgor Wastelands this afternoon. I know, stats would have to be converted. I just wanted finally to find out whether Bill Coffin is as good as they say. Based on skimming it, I'd say he probably is.

Warthur, your description of The Kev's early gaming sounds right on. Lots of gonzo tech in the Defilers campaigns, AFAIK. (Lots of players too btw--usually around 20, according to the Master.)

I had it when it first came out, or shortly thereafter.
Decent game. Better at the time than DnD, or so I thought.

Palladium Fantasy first edition is one of the best rpg designs of all time hands down.  Indeed it borders on the very edge of out awesoming Rolemaster Standard System.

The difference between what happened to RM2 and TPFRPG when they went to new editions is simple.  RMSS is carefully integrated, frighteningly complete, and internally consistant in ways RM2 never was.  TPFRPG2 is a scrambled, incomplete  mess that loses all the beauty and elegance of the original.

Now if I can just cross breed the two in my lab.  Mwahahahahahahaha

Also a DMing tip, you don't need to generate stats for npcs, if you've got their class and level you can look up all of their skills on the skill charts, so all you'll need is their hit points.

Let me hit the high points:

While there are elves and dwarves they're nearly extinct and live among humans.

Decidedly humanocentric world with monsters mostly living in the fringes and ruins of fallen civilizations.

Fast character creation

Minimal npc record keeping required (see above)

Excellent defense roll mechanism that manages to avoid most of the pitfalls without needing special auto success rules.

Skills as flat percentiles from a chart.

Brilliant weapon differentiation through skill incrementation.

Simple as red box basic D&D more flexible than D&D 3.0 less cluttered than AD&D

Really messed up way of getting more spells for your level one wizard.  Also one of the coolest wizard characters in gaming.  Not to mention Diabolists and Summoners.

Of course, even then it's not as Good as Mechanoid Invasion Book III but nothing else really ever will be.

Palladium Fantasy first edition is one of the best rpg designs of all time hands down.  Indeed it borders on the very edge of out awesoming Rolemaster Standard System.

The difference between what happened to RM2 and TPFRPG when they went to new editions is simple.  RMSS is carefully integrated, frighteningly complete, and internally consistant just as TPFRPG is.  TPFRPG2 is a scrambled, incomplete  mess that loses all the beauty and elegance of the original while RM2 never really had it.

Now if I can just cross breed the two in my lab.  Mwahahahahahahaha

Also a DMing tip, you don't need to generate stats for npcs, if you've got their class and level you can look up all of their skills on the skill charts, so all you'll need is their hit points.

Let me hit the high points:

While there are elves and dwarves they're nearly extinct and live among humans.

Decidedly humanocentric world with monsters mostly living in the fringes and ruins of fallen civilizations.

Fast character creation

Minimal npc record keeping required (see above)

Excellent defense roll mechanism that manages to avoid most of the pitfalls without needing special auto success rules.

Skills as flat percentiles from a chart.

Brilliant weapon differentiation through skill incrementation.

Simple as red box basic D&D more flexible than D&D 3.0 less cluttered than AD&D

Really messed up way of getting more spells for your level one wizard.  Also one of the coolest wizard characters in gaming.  Not to mention Diabolists and Summoners.

Of course, even then it's not as Good as Mechanoid Invasion Book III but nothing else really ever will be.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityIs this game playable and fun as is, or does it have major structural flaws/limits  that need a massive houseruling effort to remedy?

Yes...to both questions.

When it came out, the dominant paradigm was that houseruling and content creation was a fun part of the hobby just like painting is part of Warhammer.

Have you ever played Palladium's Valley of the Pharoahs?   Its Palladium's only boxed set game and its Fantasy Egypt.  You can get it as a free download on their website.   I played it at Open House 2007 and it was great fun to get all funky and Egyptian.   If you liked Scorpion King, snag it.

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/cuttingroom/valley/valley.html

Quote from: David JohansenOf course, even then it's not as Good as Mechanoid Invasion Book III but nothing else really ever will be.

David, you speak utter insanity.   Pure crazy.  Weirdness of the 10th degree.

That said, I am running a Mechanoids Homeworld event at the next Palladium Open House because I missed that game in the 80s and its just an infectious read that screams out for some playing.

For those of you who don't know, the Mechanoid Invasion was Kevin Siembieda's Trilogy RPG with three games packaged for three wildly different campaigns - kinda like what Black Library promised to do with 40k.   The first is Invasion where we have a scifi world getting squished by killer psychic robots, the next is Some Other Title where you try to survive inside the giant mother ship of the robots like mice in an aircraft carrier and lastly, Homeworld which is in the far future where various races squabble over the remains of the psychic robot's ancient legacy.

When did they release those as pdf? The page says it was modified in 2006.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityIs this game playable and fun as is, or does it have major structural flaws/limits  that need a massive houseruling effort to remedy?

For purposes of this thread, "lack of class balance" or indeed any rule or element by which Teh Gonzo trumps Teh GURPS, shall not be defined as a major structural flaw/limit.

The illustration in the front sums it all up for me. It's KS's drawing of his group, the one that played the original campaign. It looks like THE RIFTS GROUP, including a goblin, giant, superheros, robot, more. These guys played for hours on end. I often get the feel that a decade more of main Palladium products have never been playtested. Not so here. You can feel the dice rolling.

KS's PRPG is The Satanic Bible to Gygax's AD&D. Where Gygax said THOU SHALT NOT PLAY THIS, KS said THOU SHALT. Monster pcs? Check. Evil characters? Check. Skills? Check. On and on.

Plus it has a kickass deadly adventure in the back written by Erick Wujcik.

It does put rules bits in oddly, under the classes they mesh with. So combat is covered in the fightan classes, spells in the magic ones and so forth. But, it has the MEAT in just one solid trim book that took 2nd edition 3+ thick books to cover! :pundit:

The only thing I really enjoy from 2nd edition not in this one are the full spell point system (it sorta kinda exists here), the wonderful pulpy inked illustrations and other art, and Bill Coffin's writing. But they're pretty compatible, so just pick up the region books you want from 2nd edition.

Quote from: darWhen did they release those as pdf? The page says it was modified in 2006.

Palladium's had the Recon etc. pdfs up for a while now, including the first supplement book for PRPG. (Arms of Nagash-Tor?) I'd think before 2006 actually but I could be wrong.