Quote from: danskmacabre;1116607Rogues are not just good for traps.
They also have their great backstab ability if used properly in sync with other characters in combat.
They also have some very useful knowledge skills.
They're great at sneaking ahead and finding out information in advance.
And yeah, they're good at detecting/removing traps.

For whatever reason, they're one of the most fun classes to play in DnD.

Stabby-stabby is one of my favorite uses for rogues, and proof rogues aren't just for trap finding. Whenever I make a rogue I tend to go for the stealthy scout build focused on sniping, stabbing and spying. Only thing rogues aren't good for is tanking.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1116694Regretfully, I often forget to include traps (and when I do they're usually not particularly clever... I can't count the number of times I've run through lazily reflavored versions of the Indiana Jones traps ), however thief and rogue-types have always been valuable in my campaigns; there is still plenty to do! I suppose it also helps that it's fairly easy for any PC to pick up a handful of rogue skills for use in a pinch such as lockpicking, search, sleight of hand or smuggling; due to the open nature of classless systems, it's slightly more straightforward to ease up on designated party roles.

Yeah, I need to make some trap tables or something one of these days, maybe pin some sticky notes on my books, cuz I often forget them too. Locked stuff is more common, cuz it's easier to remember people don't just leave values within easy reach--I just need to remember sometimes they use traps too. Strategic sneaking, out of the rogue-type characters' repertoire, tends to see the most use on my campaigns, though.

I prefer classless systems as well, but often end up playing D&D regardless, where class can be a factor (though, not as much in recent editions).

Quote from: VisionStorm;1116715Stabby-stabby is one of my favorite uses for rogues, and proof rogues aren't just for trap finding. Whenever I make a rogue I tend to go for the stealthy scout build focused on sniping, stabbing and spying. Only thing rogues aren't good for is tanking.



Yeah, I need to make some trap tables or something one of these days, maybe pin some sticky notes on my books, cuz I often forget them too. Locked stuff is more common, cuz it's easier to remember people don't just leave values within easy reach--I just need to remember sometimes they use traps too. Strategic sneaking, out of the rogue-type characters' repertoire, tends to see the most use on my campaigns, though.

Yes, for sure! I often find when I have a player build a thief-y type, they often end up doing a lot of filching and things too. Players do love stealing other peoples stuff... whether it's valuable or not. In my last campaign, one PC got sour at another and spent 6 sessions in a row secretly pick pocketing her character's cigarettes over and over again. Then the thief got in a car crash, the victim's PC went to drag him out of the wreck, finding her crumpled smokes and tobacco dribbling out of his pockets... caught red-handed! Luckily he was already unconscious so she had little cause to beat the tar out of him, at least at that time. Later she did knock him out cold over a separate dispute (her PC was a boxer, his... wasn't)...

Quote from: VisionStorm;1116715I prefer classless systems as well, but often end up playing D&D regardless, where class can be a factor (though, not as much in recent editions).

Yeah, recent editions of D&D seem to be more forgiving about that. Of course, it can become a problem for certain player types if there isn't any niche protection at all. Though it seems to vary, some do love playing the "we're all surgeons! Wait no, we're all butlers!"-type campaigns.

I enjoy class-based differences, and I love Thieves as an archetype. That said, I don't much enjoy Thieves in games where they are essentially useless, but as a homebrew guy I'd rather change the game to make better Thieves than eliminate them.

In my homebrew, "finding and removing traps" is generalized into Searching and Precision skills. Everyone can do it; Thieves are just much better at it. Thieves are also the Poison experts in my game, a facet reserved for them (and generally a carefully guarded knowledge).

I thought I'd miss the Thief when running S&W:WB, but it was amazing how swiftly the players adapted to No Thieves / All Thieves and suddenly, the Mage was doing sneaky stuff since he's not in armor, and the Cleric poked around for traps because he was wise and wearing armor, while Fighters wore the Elven Cloak and Boots because it made them great scouts and able to launch surprise attacks.

What's a rogue?  We use thieves.

Their climb sheer walls ability is worth the class alone. So many uses.

Used some traps tonight placed by a Kobold Trapsmith from the Tome of Beasts. First few were bypassed easily, but then the paladin stepped on the false step that ignited a choke bomb of smoking fumes...and then stumbled forward into the (now obscured by smoke) tripwire that dropped a skullpopper (weight swinging on a rope) that smacked her and knocked her down a few steps. It was pretty amusing to everyone at the table.

I rarely make traps very complex. I tend to prefer simple traps, if no more than as a matter of emulation. There needs to be a very good reason for a very complicated trap.

Big Indiana Jones fan so I love traps and environmental hazards.  The wife and I are going to see Jumanji 2 tonight and I'd be hard pressed to call any of those characters thieves/rogues.  Allan Quartermain, Jack Colton, and just about any pulp adventurer all fit the bill.  Also hardly any of them actually disarm the traps.

A veteran GI in Vietnam would hardly qualify as a thief/rogue either but were dealing with detecting/disarming/setting traps and navigating difficult terrain/ruins similar to anything out of D&D.

Thieves are just where those skills got codified and now they're a sacred cow.

Greetings!

Well, certainly the Pulp traditions embrace vivid foundations for Rogues and a particular set of skills. Such ideas translate fairly well even into a medievalesque, fantastic milieu. I am also reminded that even within our own modern times, in the military, we have embraced some of the imagery and role exemplified by the Rogue. In the Marine Corps, for example, in the Infantry, we always have a member of each four-man Fire Team designated as the Scout. A Fire Team is composed of a Fire Team Leader, a Scout, a Grenadier--(Grenadiers are Marines that are equipped with a grenade launcher)--and a SAW Gunner (Machine Gunner). Three such four-man Fire Teams make up a Marine Infantry Squad, led by a Squad Leader. Marine Scouts in the field often perform roles very similar to what the Rogue does in D&D. Scouting, reconnaissance, disarming traps, intel gathering, setting up and coordinating ambushes, as well as leading the rest of the Marine squad through difficult terrain. While there are not strict physical standards required for Scouts which differentiate them from their fellow Marines, in practice the Scouts are selected or encouraged from men that are generally smaller in stature, naturally quiet and stealthy, talented in swift, graceful movement, keenly observant, and generally more skilled in maneuvering and celebrated for their agility and woodcraft.

D&D Rogues seem to fit the bill fairly well, even from a modern operational philosophy. The Adventuring Party, often composed of 4 to a dozen members, seems to have a need for such a character, or several, in view of their typical escapades and missions, both in above-ground ruins, as well as subterranean dungeons and cavern complexes.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

In terms of actual trap usage I like the big flashy traps that are complicated (due to reading too much Grimtoof in my formative RPG years) but agree that they are really hard to justify.  I just wrapped up Tomb of Annihilation and they made a half-hearted attempt at explaining how everything was powered and reset but was still really flimsy.

If you aren't doing the dungeonpunk of 3-5 editions then staying with the more realistic claymore/punji pit/tripwire type stuff makes more sense.  Apart from traps that are literally just magic like glyphs or snake sigils, etc.