Quote from: VisionStorm on January 11, 2022, 06:48:10 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 11, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
Okay then.

In the event that the SJWs create those hypothetical white drow I mentioned earlier (they've done crazier shit already so I wouldn't put it past them, especially as white people become a persecuted minority in western countries), if you guys complain that it's racist then I will write a strongly worded letter expressing my indignation.

Your hypothetical white drow with black African looking elves is such an obvious inversion it would come off as SJW cringe. But I could definitely see a race of European looking evil creatures cursed with "deathly paleness" as a sign of their evil. Maybe make them vampires or something. Evil bloodsucking "deathly pale" white devils that come from the abyssal depths of the earth!

Mystara actually has that, i forget the name its like Schatenalfen

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 11, 2022, 08:38:06 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 11, 2022, 06:48:10 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 11, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
Okay then.

In the event that the SJWs create those hypothetical white drow I mentioned earlier (they've done crazier shit already so I wouldn't put it past them, especially as white people become a persecuted minority in western countries), if you guys complain that it's racist then I will write a strongly worded letter expressing my indignation.

Your hypothetical white drow with black African looking elves is such an obvious inversion it would come off as SJW cringe. But I could definitely see a race of European looking evil creatures cursed with "deathly paleness" as a sign of their evil. Maybe make them vampires or something. Evil bloodsucking "deathly pale" white devils that come from the abyssal depths of the earth!

Some scholars have seriously proposed that Dracula is Slavophobic and Nosferatu is antisemitic (altho there's little evidence the parallels were intentional, since Stoker was Irish and several of Murnau's actors were Jewish). So it's a small leap to anti-white.

Some scholars are seriously idiotic and want to figure out ways to be offended by everything. This is why Academia has turned into a fart smelling exercise.

Quote from: Slambo on January 11, 2022, 08:38:15 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 11, 2022, 06:48:10 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 11, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
Okay then.

In the event that the SJWs create those hypothetical white drow I mentioned earlier (they've done crazier shit already so I wouldn't put it past them, especially as white people become a persecuted minority in western countries), if you guys complain that it's racist then I will write a strongly worded letter expressing my indignation.

Your hypothetical white drow with black African looking elves is such an obvious inversion it would come off as SJW cringe. But I could definitely see a race of European looking evil creatures cursed with "deathly paleness" as a sign of their evil. Maybe make them vampires or something. Evil bloodsucking "deathly pale" white devils that come from the abyssal depths of the earth!

Mystara actually has that, i forget the name its like Schatenalfen

Figured someone would have beat me to it. There's probably other settings with similar stuff.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 11, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
Okay then.

In the event that the SJWs create those hypothetical white drow I mentioned earlier (they've done crazier shit already so I wouldn't put it past them, especially as white people become a persecuted minority in western countries), if you guys complain that it's racist then I will write a strongly worded letter expressing my indignation.

Shadar-Kai?
"They had dusky gray skin and colorless complexions that varied from alabaster to dark gray", described as cold, emotionless and un-empathetic.
They also serve the Raven Queen, who is not Lolth, but also not a creature of Good or Light either.
To be featured in the upcoming Mordenkainen's rehash of playable races and monsters with problematic lore excised. Coming this spring.

Is that white enough or pseudo-Drow enough?  IDK, but it's something that comes to mind.

Quote from: DM_Curt on January 12, 2022, 07:57:30 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 11, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
Okay then.

In the event that the SJWs create those hypothetical white drow I mentioned earlier (they've done crazier shit already so I wouldn't put it past them, especially as white people become a persecuted minority in western countries), if you guys complain that it's racist then I will write a strongly worded letter expressing my indignation.

Shadar-Kai?
"They had dusky gray skin and colorless complexions that varied from alabaster to dark gray", described as cold, emotionless and un-empathetic.
They also serve the Raven Queen, who is not Lolth, but also not a creature of Good or Light either.
To be featured in the upcoming Mordenkainen's rehash of playable races and monsters with problematic lore excised. Coming this spring.

Is that white enough or pseudo-Drow enough?  IDK, but it's something that comes to mind.

Yeesh. I imagine WotC will play up the "evil white people" stuff even though they said it's racist to make so and so races inherently evil.

Also, has anyone else noticed that every major shadar-kai and drow character in the fiction is typically some sexy hero or sexy villainess that falls in love with the hero/ine and gets redeemed by love if they weren't already? In BG2 you actually rescue an innocent drow from a hate crime.

I get where PoC gamers are coming from when they say they don't like the Curse of Ham rehash, but it's hard to stay sympathetic to that when D&D fiction focuses so much on heroic or redeemed drow and playing up the whole "drow may be evil, but they're sexy and stylish and mary sues who are chaotic evil but magically maintain a strong hierarchical civilization and blah blah blah."

Nothing makes sense to me! At this point I'm convinced Corellon cursed them with black skin because he was a racist misogynist who hated black women but also found them irresistibly beautiful and hates Lolth because she dumped him for being an incel.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 12, 2022, 10:57:34 AM
At this point I'm convinced Corellon cursed them with black skin because he was a racist misogynist who hated black women but also found them irresistibly beautiful and hates Lolth because she dumped him for being an incel.

IMC this is pretty much the Drow version of the Corellon-Lolth creation myth!

The drow tell the legend of how the Great Mother was betrayed by the Traitor Lover. So Lolth cast Corellon out from the Bosom of the Earth, where he and all his children would be cursed forever by the burning flames of the sun, bleached until their flesh was pale as bone.

Quote from: S'mon on January 12, 2022, 11:01:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 12, 2022, 10:57:34 AM
At this point I'm convinced Corellon cursed them with black skin because he was a racist misogynist who hated black women but also found them irresistibly beautiful and hates Lolth because she dumped him for being an incel.

IMC this is pretty much the Drow version of the Corellon-Lolth creation myth!

The drow tell the legend of how the Great Mother was betrayed by the Traitor Lover. So Lolth cast Corellon out from the Bosom of the Earth, where he and all his children would be cursed forever by the burning flames of the sun, bleached until their flesh was pale as bone.

LOL. Reminds me of black liberation theology and the hallucinations about Yakub.

Also, BCT needs to stop eating crayons. The 'innocent drow' in BG2 he references is Viconia, an outcast drow priestess of Shar and very distinctly NOT innocent.

Not really a hate crime when the victim is a devotee of a goddess who's caused no small amount of trouble in the FR setting.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 12, 2022, 10:57:34 AM

Quote from: DM_Curt on January 12, 2022, 07:57:30 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 11, 2022, 05:10:32 PM
Okay then.

In the event that the SJWs create those hypothetical white drow I mentioned earlier (they've done crazier shit already so I wouldn't put it past them, especially as white people become a persecuted minority in western countries), if you guys complain that it's racist then I will write a strongly worded letter expressing my indignation.

Shadar-Kai?
"They had dusky gray skin and colorless complexions that varied from alabaster to dark gray", described as cold, emotionless and un-empathetic.
They also serve the Raven Queen, who is not Lolth, but also not a creature of Good or Light either.
To be featured in the upcoming Mordenkainen's rehash of playable races and monsters with problematic lore excised. Coming this spring.

Is that white enough or pseudo-Drow enough?  IDK, but it's something that comes to mind.

Yeesh. I imagine WotC will play up the "evil white people" stuff even though they said it's racist to make so and so races inherently evil.

Also, has anyone else noticed that every major shadar-kai and drow character in the fiction is typically some sexy hero or sexy villainess that falls in love with the hero/ine and gets redeemed by love if they weren't already? In BG2 you actually rescue an innocent drow from a hate crime.

I get where PoC gamers are coming from when they say they don't like the Curse of Ham rehash, but it's hard to stay sympathetic to that when D&D fiction focuses so much on heroic or redeemed drow and playing up the whole "drow may be evil, but they're sexy and stylish and mary sues who are chaotic evil but magically maintain a strong hierarchical civilization and blah blah blah."

Nothing makes sense to me! At this point I'm convinced Corellon cursed them with black skin because he was a racist misogynist who hated black women but also found them irresistibly beautiful and hates Lolth because she dumped him for being an incel.

All roads lead to bigotry. This is what happens when you lack nuanced thinking or the ability to recognize that multiple (seemingly contradictory, but not mutually exclusive) things can be true at once. Or that actual bigotry is reliant on context and not content—specially superficial similarities between things subjectively considered "bigoted" in specific contexts and other things that share neither the context nor the exact contents.

Just because one group of people once used a myth (that wasn't even originally bigoted from what I've read of it) to justify bigoted views, that doesn't mean that all myths or pseudo-mythical fantasy write ups that even remotely resemble that coopted myth must also be bigoted or share bigoted purposes or intentions.

Context matters, and superficially similar things aren't the same content, even if context was irrelevant. Which it isn't.

(And this isn't even touching on whether "PoC" actually say any of this stuff, as opposed to just people of a particular political persuasion, or out of touch "academics" high in their own farts).

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2022, 11:33:49 AM

Quote from: S'mon on January 12, 2022, 11:01:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 12, 2022, 10:57:34 AM
At this point I'm convinced Corellon cursed them with black skin because he was a racist misogynist who hated black women but also found them irresistibly beautiful and hates Lolth because she dumped him for being an incel.

IMC this is pretty much the Drow version of the Corellon-Lolth creation myth!

The drow tell the legend of how the Great Mother was betrayed by the Traitor Lover. So Lolth cast Corellon out from the Bosom of the Earth, where he and all his children would be cursed forever by the burning flames of the sun, bleached until their flesh was pale as bone.

LOL. Reminds me of black liberation theology and the hallucinations about Yakub.

Also, BCT needs to stop eating crayons. The 'innocent drow' in BG2 he references is Viconia, an outcast drow priestess of Shar and very distinctly NOT innocent.

Not really a hate crime when the victim is a devotee of a goddess who's caused no small amount of trouble in the FR setting.

Yeah Viconia is the kind of drow your mother warned you about.

Quote from: horsesoldier on January 12, 2022, 03:01:08 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2022, 11:33:49 AM

Quote from: S'mon on January 12, 2022, 11:01:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 12, 2022, 10:57:34 AM
At this point I'm convinced Corellon cursed them with black skin because he was a racist misogynist who hated black women but also found them irresistibly beautiful and hates Lolth because she dumped him for being an incel.

IMC this is pretty much the Drow version of the Corellon-Lolth creation myth!

The drow tell the legend of how the Great Mother was betrayed by the Traitor Lover. So Lolth cast Corellon out from the Bosom of the Earth, where he and all his children would be cursed forever by the burning flames of the sun, bleached until their flesh was pale as bone.

LOL. Reminds me of black liberation theology and the hallucinations about Yakub.

Also, BCT needs to stop eating crayons. The 'innocent drow' in BG2 he references is Viconia, an outcast drow priestess of Shar and very distinctly NOT innocent.

Not really a hate crime when the victim is a devotee of a goddess who's caused no small amount of trouble in the FR setting.

Yeah Viconia is the kind of drow your mother warned you about.

Absolute freak in the sack though

It also not helped that she is an NPC who can be recruited yet of an evil alignment in both versions of BG. Which also causes friction between party members and a 2 point loss in reputation in the BG1.

You guys are aware that you're ragging on an empowered she-elf of colour from a persecuted religious minority, right?

Ray cist AF! 

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 12, 2022, 11:33:49 AM

Quote from: S'mon on January 12, 2022, 11:01:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 12, 2022, 10:57:34 AM
At this point I'm convinced Corellon cursed them with black skin because he was a racist misogynist who hated black women but also found them irresistibly beautiful and hates Lolth because she dumped him for being an incel.

IMC this is pretty much the Drow version of the Corellon-Lolth creation myth!

The drow tell the legend of how the Great Mother was betrayed by the Traitor Lover. So Lolth cast Corellon out from the Bosom of the Earth, where he and all his children would be cursed forever by the burning flames of the sun, bleached until their flesh was pale as bone.

LOL. Reminds me of black liberation theology and the hallucinations about Yakub.

Also, BCT needs to stop eating crayons. The 'innocent drow' in BG2 he references is Viconia, an outcast drow priestess of Shar and very distinctly NOT innocent.

Not really a hate crime when the victim is a devotee of a goddess who's caused no small amount of trouble in the FR setting.

It's been decades since I played. My memory is spotty.

The problem with innocent drow is that no matter how inanely convoluted their background may be, they walk under a piercer and TWAK that's it.

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 10, 2022, 05:21:19 PM
Sounds great BCT - write this setting, I'm gonna play hell in it.

Its called Zootopia. 

So how can you have a game where the idea is to rescue a slave or help fight it like Spartacus?