Paizo decides to cancel Slavery from future products

3catcircus · December 23, 2021, 08:23:53 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 22, 2021, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Palleon on December 22, 2021, 07:58:35 PM
Yes, the parts I elided from the quote above do mention rape and reprehensible use of magic.

I am not saying I agree with their views, but it's covered in the current edition of Pathfinder's standard mode of play.

Thanks, Palleon. Here's the full text from quick search:

QuoteYou might find that your players don't have much to say on the topic of objectionable content, and just assume that general societal mores will keep the most uncomfortable topics out of the game. That's not always enough, as that approach relies on shared assumptions that aren't always accurate. The following is a set of basic assumptions that works for many groups, which you can modify to fit your preferences and those of the other players.

Bloodshed, injuries, and even dismemberment might be described. However, excessive descriptions of gore and cruelty should be avoided.
Romantic and sexual relationships can happen in the game, but players should avoid being overly suggestive. Sex always happens "off-screen." Because attempts at initiating a relationship between player characters can be uncomfortably similar to one player hitting on another, this should generally be avoided (and is entirely inappropriate when playing with strangers).
Avoid excessively gross or scatological descriptions.
The following acts should never be performed by player characters:

Torture
Rape, nonconsensual sexual contact, or sexual threats
Harm to children, including sexual abuse
Owning slaves or profiting from the slave trade
Reprehensible uses of mind-control magic
Villains might engage in such acts, but they won't happen "on-screen" or won't be described in detail. Many groups choose to not have villains engage in these activities at all, keeping these reprehensible acts out of mind entirely.
Source: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=488

That's not too different from my own practice. For example, when I ran my vikings game, I avoided touching on rape, pederasty, and slavery - which were common among historically raiding vikings. I could handwave that they were happening but we just weren't discussing them - but it wasn't functionally different from just saying they just didn't happen. Roughly the same norms have been true for non-historical fantasy.

The most troubling thing is the last sentence where they describe not having villains engage in villainous behavior.

That's the equivalent of the ubiquitous sticking your fingers in the ears and going "La-La-La I can't hear you."

That's a *major* problem of the wokerati in general - pretending that something doesn't exist so that you don't have to actually confront it head-on.

Wrath of God · December 23, 2021, 09:06:21 PM

Woke crowd: Give us games about punching Nazis! We love games about fighting Nazis.

Also woke crowd: Cancel this GM for including war crimes, ethnic cleansings, racism and terrors of modern warfare in my game about punching Nazis. I'm triggered.

Mind Crime · December 23, 2021, 09:54:53 PM

"Reprehensible use of magic". This reminded me of game. DM is randomly rolling for spells in the captured spellbook of a wizard.
Hold Person
Grease
Enlarge
Silence
and some others
It was basically like seeing someone at Wal-Mart buying duct tape and zip ties, mask and gloves. Yes, jokes were made and laughs were had and we are terrible people but come on.

Ruprecht · December 23, 2021, 10:56:26 PM

It is mind boggling that they are trying to micro-manage what happens at the customers table.

Jam The MF · December 24, 2021, 01:13:08 AM

Perhaps Paizo will provide us with a game, wherein player characters and monsters can all be nice to each other? All Bestiary Monster Entries will now read:

Alignment: Nice

Fergurg · December 24, 2021, 02:36:20 AM

I do have some good news. Erik Mona clarified his statement. It seems that what's actually happening is that products in the future will not be focusing on slavery, but that they are not going to just have it disappear; it's just going to be deep in the background.

Palleon · December 24, 2021, 04:05:06 AM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 23, 2021, 10:56:26 PM
It is mind boggling that they are trying to micro-manage what happens at the customers table.

The default assumptions are really based around the Pathfinder Society organized play. In that context with mostly strangers around a table in a public space, these are not egregious. Your are free to say yeah that's dumb at your own table when getting started.

Omega · December 24, 2021, 04:22:42 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 22, 2021, 05:35:35 PM
Paizo cannot allow WOTC to one-up them, in the Woke purity spiral that is underway. It's a desperate race to the bottom, to see who can achieve bankruptcy first. Paizo will get there first, because WOTC has deeper pockets.

WOTC doesnt have as deep pockets as one might think. Hasbro has had WOTC on a tight budget leash after the fuck-ups of 4e and its unlikely they loosened the dogs collar to pre-4e days even after 5es success.

But probably still more than Paizo has. Bemusing that these two companies are their own worst enemy.

Abraxus · December 24, 2021, 07:23:33 AM

Liability issues lol try telling that to the mentality deranged on the Paizo forums. They will with the blessing of the mods call you some kind of ist or phobe.

Nuance is a bad word to them: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43jne?Is-nuance-a-bad-word-now

Where they show they just want an echo chamber: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43jjq?Direction-of-Community

Mutual Masturbotary circle jerk: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43jnp?Suggestion-for-mods-please-add-suffix-to-the

SJW public service announcement: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43iuv?Intolerance-is-NOT-welcome-here

What started the whole transphobia panic : https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6shvp?Paizo-Leadership-Team-Update#discuss

Svenhelgrim · December 24, 2021, 10:23:58 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on December 24, 2021, 07:23:33 AM
Liability issues lol try telling that to the mentality deranged on the Paizo forums. They will with the blessing of the mods call you some kind of ist or phobe.

Nuance is a bad word to them: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43jne?Is-nuance-a-bad-word-now

Where they show they just want an echo chamber: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43jjq?Direction-of-Community

Mutual Masturbotary circle jerk: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43jnp?Suggestion-for-mods-please-add-suffix-to-the

SJW public service announcement: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43iuv?Intolerance-is-NOT-welcome-here

What started the whole transphobia panic : https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6shvp?Paizo-Leadership-Team-Update#discuss

Holy crap! There isn't enough popcorn in the world for me to eat as I watch these woke-ass morons self-destruct.

Zalman · December 24, 2021, 10:28:02 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on December 24, 2021, 07:23:33 AM
Intolerance-is-NOT-welcome-here

I feel really concerned about whoever titled this thread without recognizing the screaming irony.

Krugus · December 24, 2021, 12:07:26 PM

I was just telling my wife that the ones that harp diversity diversity diversity! forget the most important diverse thing we need as the human race and that is diverse in thought.

Without different viewpoints, all you have is an echo chamber.

They can't see the forest because they are too busy burning it down wondering where all the tree's and the furry little animals are at.....

Abraxus · December 24, 2021, 12:22:44 PM

Quote from: Krugus on December 24, 2021, 12:07:26 PM
I was just telling my wife that the ones that harp diversity diversity diversity! forget the most important diverse thing we need as the human race and that is diverse in thought.

Without different viewpoints, all you have is an echo chamber.

They can't see the forest because they are too busy burning it down wondering where all the tree's and the furry little animals are at.....

As soon as one tries to push for a different viewpoint at least on that site. Your a bona fide Nazi, racist, misogynistic, transphobic, homophobic person. So no way to win.

Thorn Drumheller · December 24, 2021, 01:03:53 PM

I'm sitting here with popcorn enjoying the entertainment. Honestly, I'd love it if the WotC division and Paizo would implode. It would do more for the health of rpg's than anything else, in my opinion. Sometimes a fire in the forest is what is needed to allow new growth.

I'd feel bad for the folks who need their jobs to provide food and shelter obviously so it's easy for me to say that. But.... Cheers

Shrieking Banshee · December 24, 2021, 01:41:11 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on December 24, 2021, 01:03:53 PMIt would do more for the health of rpg's than anything else, in my opinion. Sometimes a fire in the forest is what is needed to allow new growth.

Or sometimes its like a pillar that gives out and crushes all the other tenants. Id say most people get into TRPGs from D&D name branding. Without those two, id wager the next big thing would be GW and Warhammer. Your replacing one scumcorp for another.