This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.

Author Topic: Paizo decides to cancel Slavery from future products  (Read 8373 times)

Palleon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • P
  • Posts: 58
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2021, 03:00:35 PM »
The most significant quote is this one: "because there was no rule to disallow it, the gamemaster and other players at the table had no way to stop them."

A GM can do nothing unless it is specifically spelled out in the rules. That's the mindset these people have and it's why they insist on changing everything.

Someone hasn't read PF2E Core page 486 under "The Pathfinder Baseline":

The following acts should never be performed by player characters:
  • Torture
  • ...
  • Owning slaves or profiting from the slave trade
  • ...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 03:05:03 PM by Palleon »

BoxCrayonTales

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • B
  • Posts: 2226
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2021, 03:01:53 PM »
The most significant quote is this one: "because there was no rule to disallow it, the gamemaster and other players at the table had no way to stop them."

A GM can do nothing unless it is specifically spelled out in the rules. That's the mindset these people have and it's why they insist on changing everything.

Someone hasn't read PF2E Core page 486 under "The Pathfinder Baseline":

The following acts should never be performed by player characters:
  • Torture
  • ...
  • Owing slaves or profiting from the slave trade
  • ...
So basically you're not allowed to play evil campaigns?

Wrath of God

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
  • Fearful Symmetry
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2021, 03:13:33 PM »
Quote
So basically you're not allowed to play evil campaigns?

Not even Lawful Neutral campaigns.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

Palleon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • P
  • Posts: 58
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2021, 03:17:16 PM »
The most significant quote is this one: "because there was no rule to disallow it, the gamemaster and other players at the table had no way to stop them."

A GM can do nothing unless it is specifically spelled out in the rules. That's the mindset these people have and it's why they insist on changing everything.

Someone hasn't read PF2E Core page 486 under "The Pathfinder Baseline":

The following acts should never be performed by player characters:
  • Torture
  • ...
  • Owing slaves or profiting from the slave trade
  • ...
So basically you're not allowed to play evil campaigns?

They advocate Session Zero.  You would update your baseline during this for something outside the default.

Wrath of God

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
  • Fearful Symmetry
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2021, 04:15:36 PM »
Session Zero is in fact generally good concept.
But if you're advocating it - maybe stop virtue-signalling own orthodoxy.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2021, 04:19:13 PM »
Someone hasn't read PF2E Core page 486 under "The Pathfinder Baseline":

The following acts should never be performed by player characters:
  • Torture
  • ...
  • Owning slaves or profiting from the slave trade
  • ...
OK then Paizo. Il just execute all my prisoners. Or send them to die in brutal medieval prisons where if they are not worked to death, the state might maybe give them a quick execution if their lucky. And entertainment for the town if only somewhat lucky.

Very ethical.

There was different kinds of slavery in the past, and some of it was a response to the brutal times and reality where generally criminals where just executed for even mild crimes because the state didn't have any sort of rehabilitation resources. So slavery was an extreme form of debt repayment.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 04:21:10 PM by Shrieking Banshee »

Mishihari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • M
  • Posts: 508
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2021, 05:05:59 PM »
How dare they whitewash a pseudo historically based game!  It's just like they're saying slavery never existed in real life!  If we remove all the bad stuff from our history, how do we learn to do better in the future!!!???!!11!!1!!




(Special note for any idiots reading this - it's sarcasm, duh)

rytrasmi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2021, 05:21:39 PM »
How dare they whitewash a pseudo historically based game!  It's just like they're saying slavery never existed in real life!  If we remove all the bad stuff from our history, how do we learn to do better in the future!!!???!!11!!1!!




(Special note for any idiots reading this - it's sarcasm, duh)
Many people, myself included, don't like being lectured to by the self-important sensitives of the world. Slavery was an exceedingly common practice and often formed a significant part of ancient and medieval societies. Removing it from a fantasy game that has many medieval/ancient trappings is just weak. It's clearly done only to appeal to "modern sensitivities." Yet, according to those same self-important sensitives, it's still perfectly alright to stab people in the face, cut out their guts, burn an enemy's house down while he's asleep inside, and set out to generally murder, pillage, and loot.

Does anyone here support slavery? No. Should we be treated like children by the people who make the products we buy? Also, no.

This type of cleansing is done by people who can't distinguish fantasy from reality and think that everyone else has the same mental defect.

3catcircus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • ?
  • Posts: 269
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2021, 05:30:55 PM »
I can’t help but wonder the timing of the announcement to try and use it as a smokescreen for their past transgressions.

First one employee refused to sleep in the room with a trans employee and then one of the guys in charge doxxed a poster by name on the boards. No matter what they said or claimed to do the Woke Mob was not satisfied and now this. Makes you wonder if they hope the mob will forget the first two. Guess what they won’t

This sleeping in the same hotel room is a foreign concept to me.  What shit company requires employees on business travel to bunk together?!?! I've literally never heard of this being done by any reputable company (whether a 10 person mom-and-pop, or a Fortune 500 multinational).

Yes, I've seen companies require receipts; require expenses to be actual and reasonable, or to refuse to consider travel hours on the weekend to be paid hours. I've never seen any company ever require employees to room together.  Sure, in extraordinary circumstances (such as when we had people rent a U-Haul truck as a rental car to drive home from a business trip when 9/11 happened), you might have to. But not as a routine thing.  Any company that would require this is not worth working for.

Jam The MF

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2021, 05:35:35 PM »
Paizo cannot allow WOTC to one-up them, in the Woke purity spiral that is underway.  It's a desperate race to the bottom, to see who can achieve bankruptcy first.  Paizo will get there first, because WOTC has deeper pockets.
I spit on your pronouns!!!  If the world goes crazy, and I need to use the pages of RPG books to start fires for cooking and warmth; D&D 4th Edition will be the first to burn!!!

Jam The MF

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2021, 05:37:02 PM »
Pathfinder 1st Edition still exists, and always will.  My book shelf cries out, against the Paizo of today.
I spit on your pronouns!!!  If the world goes crazy, and I need to use the pages of RPG books to start fires for cooking and warmth; D&D 4th Edition will be the first to burn!!!

DoctorGlocktor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2021, 07:09:26 PM »
I mourn the tragedy of all the slaves in Golarion that lost their lives at the hands of their cruel masters. So much loss... so senseless.

Oh right. None of that is real except in the minds of morons.

Meanwhile... in Libya/China/North Korea/Pakistan/Mauritania/Liberia/Uganda/Congo/Ghana/Togo/Madagascar/Sudan and I could probably name a dozen other nations - slavery in one form or another (child/female sex-trade, indentured servitude, outright slavery etc) goes on without a peep.

But THANK Galactus we finally freed the people of Golarion. WHEW.

Hell if you're talking sex trafficking it is alive and well in 1st world countries. It is illegal, but it is still a thriving industry.

jmarso

  • Newbie
  • *
  • j
  • Posts: 46
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2021, 07:36:02 PM »

Many people, myself included, don't like being lectured to by the self-important sensitives of the world. Slavery was an exceedingly common practice and often formed a significant part of ancient and medieval societies. Removing it from a fantasy game that has many medieval/ancient trappings is just weak. It's clearly done only to appeal to "modern sensitivities." Yet, according to those same self-important sensitives, it's still perfectly alright to stab people in the face, cut out their guts, burn an enemy's house down while he's asleep inside, and set out to generally murder, pillage, and loot.

Does anyone here support slavery? No. Should we be treated like children by the people who make the products we buy? Also, no.

This type of cleansing is done by people who can't distinguish fantasy from reality and think that everyone else has the same mental defect.

Well said.

Hakdov

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
    • Iron Spikes
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2021, 07:53:24 PM »
Is necromancy also canceled?  What is that if not slavery with extra steps?  How about Charm, Suggestion, and Dominate spells?  How about Bards using their high Charisma to seduce everything?  How is that not rape?  Everything is problematic once you start down this slope. 

kreegan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Paizo decides to cancel Slsvery from future products
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2021, 07:58:06 PM »
Is necromancy also canceled?  What is that if not slavery with extra steps?  How about Charm, Suggestion, and Dominate spells?  How about Bards using their high Charisma to seduce everything?  How is that not rape?  Everything is problematic once you start down this slope.

You should write an anonymous "open letter" about each of those and get some results.