Quote from: Spinachcat;872656From a myth perspective, is there any difference?

'Devil' comes from the Indo-European 'Deva'.  (EDIT: See NathanIW's post above, treating 'diabolos' and more.) Iranians regarded the Ahuras/Asuras as good, the Devas as bad; the Indians used the opposite nomenclature.  One theory as to the origin of this situation can be found in The Great Transformation by Karen Armstrong.

Demon or Daemon comes from Greek usage referring to a "guardian angel" or "voice of conscience" kind of spirit.

The Devil in Christianity seems to owe something to the Zoroastrian Ahriman, which may also have influenced the Buddhist concept of Mara the Deceiver.

In Judeo-Christian appropriation, the terms are interchangeable and refer alike to fallen angels (rebels against God), of whom Satan/Lucifer (seen in the Bible under the former title-name as a loyal servant of God)  is the chief.  In the New Testament, it's usual to find "the Devil" in reference to him, "demons" for the rest. Christians have been prone to regard "pagan idols" as devils/demons when not dismissing the pagan gods as just made-up figures.

Quote from: Phillip;872896'Devil' comes from the Indo-European 'Deva'.  (EDIT: See NathanIW's post above, treating 'diabolos' and more.) Iranians regarded the Ahuras/Asuras as good, the Devas as bad; the Indians used the opposite nomenclature.  One theory as to the origin of this situation can be found in The Great Transformation by Karen Armstrong.

Demon or Daemon comes from Greek usage referring to a "guardian angel" or "voice of conscience" kind of spirit.

The Devil in Christianity seems to owe something to the Zoroastrian Ahriman, which may also have influenced the Buddhist concept of Mara the Deceiver.

In Judeo-Christian appropriation, the terms are interchangeable and refer alike to fallen angels (rebels against God), of whom Satan/Lucifer (seen in the Bible under the former title-name as a loyal servant of God)  is the chief.  In the New Testament, it's usual to find "the Devil" in reference to him, "demons" for the rest. Christians have been prone to regard "pagan idols" as devils/demons when not dismissing the pagan gods as just made-up figures.

Actually the more simple explanation for the origin of devil is the latin diabolus. (In other eurpean languages the lineage is more clear: Diavolo, Diable, Diablo). The latin diabolus is in turn a direct transliteration of a greek term that means roughly "slanderer" and it's used to translate the biblical term satan (adversary, accuser).

I'd rather belive in some linking bwtween demon  and Deva, as the greek term was kinda broadly used for supernatural beings.

Back to the question on topic, I don't think there's ever been a rigurous distinction between the terms in the christian tradition.

As a curiosity, in italy we have the term diavolo (pl. diavoli, devils), demone (pl. demoni, demons) and the variation "Demonio" (just singular, used for Satan as an alternative to il Diavolo).

Quote from: Phillip;872896The Devil in Christianity seems to owe something to the Zoroastrian Ahriman, which may also have influenced the Buddhist concept of Mara the Deceiver.

Christianity also preserved another artifact of the interplay between Hebraic and Iranian religion:  hell as eternal punishment.  And it's association with the evil force.  They even have a common eschatology in terms of the devil/ahriman both ending up in the torture chamber at the end of days.  As well, the conquests of Alexander through to the Roman empire was an interesting process as the Tanak translated into koine Greek ends up rendering sheol (which just means the grave) as hades.  So you end up importing ideas of hell or a bad afterlife into Christianity from more than one source.

That said, my favorite demons are the ones from Thai Buddhist art.



Got too much bad karma?  Get in the stew for a few million years!  That'll learn ya!

The different ideas of hell in Buddhism show both a startling lack of creativity and a complete running away with ideas that makes it a lot more enjoyable than a simple lake of fire.  There's freezing cold hell, hell where you get reborn again and again as a person with an animal head and get slaughtered for meat by blue skinned demons.  Hell where you get made into stew over and over.

Great times.  Even if it is a rather late development in Buddhist thought and sort of cuts out the pathos of repeating life in this world over and over again being bad enough to want to end the cycle forever and replaces it with a cheap traditional religious threat of torture after you die.

In my own game the gods are just powerful immortal magical humanoids that are like 10-12 feet tall.  Demons are the souls of anyone who is killed by magic mixed up in the blender that is Chaos.  Then there are some other gods which I just full on stole from Lovecraft and his friends.  The anthropomorphic gods tend to be sought out by humans for worship because they really are the only thing standing between humans and chaos and madness.  While the majority religion of the largest city that's been come across is about the worship of an elder thing, the players have had no problem seeing him/it as someone/thing they can really work with and have largely been doing his/its work and calling it good.

Quote from: Korgul;872905Actually the more simple explanation for the origin of devil is the latin diabolus.

Whence that? Latin is a new kid on the block compared with Avestan and Sanskrit! In any case, it seems to me more likely that multiple lineages contributed to the eventual Western concept and modern English word than that there was a simple linear process.

Quote from: Phillip;872924Whence that? Latin is a new kid on the block compared with Avestan and Sanskrit! In any case, it seems to me more likely that multiple lineages contributed to the eventual Western concept and modern English word than that there was a simple linear process.

Yes, Latin is newer and has a much more direct influence on english language than Sanskrit. In the specific case of the word devil the various mutation from diabolus to devil are quite documented, and the word diabolus had clear origin in a greek word that designate a concept quite unrelated to Deva.

Le'ts not forget the Roman festival of Di Manes (the deceased) known as Feralia, which followed Parentalia, a lengthy period of time in February in which ancestors were revered in a manner akin to household gods. These ancestral dead are where the D&D Manes and lemures derive from. Historically I've generally been under the impression that the appearance of demons was part of the Christianization of Rome, as older pagan beliefs were subsumed into the Christian baggage about evil beings which derived from older sources such as the devas, asuras, Ahriman and other concepts....Di Manes became the demons, another one of the "other" that was the demonization (ahem) of pre-Christian belief systems.

Quote from: Spinachcat;872656D&D breaks down demons as Chaotic Evil and devils as Lawful Evil, but outside of D&D, what are the differences between the two?

Do any other RPGs separate Demons from Devils?

From a myth perspective, is there any difference?

Outside D&D the two words are synonymous. While etymologically derived from two different words for "accuser" and "spirit," the two nowadays just generically mean evil spirits. In Christianity, the Devil is the big bad evil guy and demons are his servants. Otherwise, there is no difference.

Also, D&D introduced "daemons" (yes, a variant spelling of demon, kudos for uncreativity) to fill the neutral evil spot on the alignment chart. They're more popularly known as "yugoloths" and they have always been boring and played second fiddle to demons and devils.

I think that early D&D was clearly riffing off medieval ideas of Demonic Hierarchies; if you look at medieval grimoires like the Goetia or the Book of Sacred Magic of Abramelin, there are lists of demons, their titles (there are demon Kings, Dukes, Marquis, Counts, Knights, etc.), and lists of the demonic armies under their banner.  
This was the source of inspiration, in a more unsullied form than in most D&D, for my demonology material in Dark Albion.

The distinction between demons and devils in D&D happened as a result of the two-axis alignment system. I don't think that this distinction was based on any historical understanding at all.

Quote from: camazotz;873017Le'ts not forget the Roman festival of Di Manes (the deceased) known as Feralia, which followed Parentalia, a lengthy period of time in February in which ancestors were revered in a manner akin to household gods. These ancestral dead are where the D&D Manes and lemures derive from. Historically I've generally been under the impression that the appearance of demons was part of the Christianization of Rome, as older pagan beliefs were subsumed into the Christian baggage about evil beings which derived from older sources such as the devas, asuras, Ahriman and other concepts....Di Manes became the demons, another one of the "other" that was the demonization (ahem) of pre-Christian belief systems.

According to an online etymology dictionary, demon, like devil, comes from Greek.

Apparently, Greek "daimon" could include souls of the dead, and this word in turn came from Proto Indo European (supposedly) dai-mon, meaning something like "provider" or "one who provides" (compare "providence"?).

Greek "diabolos" apparently literally meant something like "throws across" hence "one who throws across", as in throwing accusations, hence slanderer (see upthread). The "dia" bit possibly being related to the sense of "two" (like "between"?).

But of course Sanskrit is very close to Proto Indo European. Hence for instance PIE "duwo" or "dwo" ("two") is cognate with Sanskrit "dvau". Apparently the PIE root for "ballein" (Greek for "throw") is something like "gwele".

So does that mean that if you wanted to invent a word for the devil with the oldest possible flavour you could make it "duwogwele"? Of course that isn't a real PIE word and maybe if the ancients had heard it they might have guessed that you meant to say "twice-inflated" which I suppose could neatly allude to the devil's pride...

From a roleplaying perspective, I go with devils = corruptors, demons = destroyers.

Wily behind the scenes manipulative antagonist? Devil.

Ravening monster ripping things to pieces? Demon.

Quote from: apparition13;873954From a roleplaying perspective, I go with devils = corruptors, demons = destroyers.

Wily behind the scenes manipulative antagonist? Devil.

Ravening monster ripping things to pieces? Demon.

I think that might be an oversimplification. Ideally, the difference between D&D demons and devils is that demons are hedonistic whereas devils are tyrannical and this reflects in their modus operandi and end goals.

Devils want to corrupt, enslave and buy souls in an orderly manner. They work in groups to make up for individual deficiencies and better allocate resources. They are willing to sacrifice personal freedoms in their pursuit of power.

Demons just want to have fun and couldn't care less about souls. While the less patient or creative ones stoop to banal rampages, others devise more baroque ways of tormenting their victims. The succubus seduces and ruins innocent lives, the glabrezu grants wishes that backfire horribly, etc.

In my games I almost never make any distinction.

In my DCC game I have Daemons, which are ultra-powerful immortal AI patrons for wizards; and demons, which are still powerful but not nearly as powerful leathery-winged cloven-hoofed extra-planar monsters.

Quote from: Spinachcat;872656D&D breaks down demons as Chaotic Evil and devils as Lawful Evil, but outside of D&D, what are the differences between the two?

Do any other RPGs separate Demons from Devils?

From a myth perspective, is there any difference?

Outside of OD&D - you mean in the real world (since that is the only thing outside of OD&D )They are two names for the same identical thing.

Quote from: RPGPundit;874232In my games I almost never make any distinction.

In my DCC game I have Daemons, which are ultra-powerful immortal AI patrons for wizards; and demons, which are still powerful but not nearly as powerful leathery-winged cloven-hoofed extra-planar monsters.

Are those homophones or does the /ae/ in "Daemons" change pronunciation?

In ZWEIHÄNDER Grim & Perilous RPG, we make no distinction between the two. Both terms are interchangeable. For flavor, the hierarchy of demons is lain out according to the Kabbalah; specifically, the Qliphoth.