OSR vs. TSR

Zak S · April 15, 2013, 03:35:11 AM

Maybe the OSR has just left a long enough paper trail by now that it's getting harder for people online to hold onto the stupid caricatures they made up about it back a million years ago when some other dork made fun of them on some forum somewhere.

Spinachcat · April 15, 2013, 04:00:00 AM

Its fair to say that the AD&D Revival faction is the largest, and perhaps loudest faction in the OSR, but certainly not the only faction.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;644043But there was a lot of saturday morning cartoon level sanitizing to D&D, some of which persists to this day.

Some? I'd say WotC has increasingly sanitized D&D, but that was expected under the ownership of Hasbro.

Quote from: JimLotFP;643748The decentralization (and resulting lack of conformity or consistency) combined with the scope of material being released now serves the audience and "the game" better than what TSR did.

I almost agree, but TSR gave me several awesome settings and outside of Carcosa, the OSR hasn't given me a published setting that has really excited me like Dark Sun, Ravenloft or Planescape.

I gotta give TSR credit for that.

The Ent · April 15, 2013, 05:42:47 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;646013I gotta give TSR credit for that.

Agreed. TSR was fantastic at creating settings.

The OSR thus far hasn't really, except the setting in Nod magazine wich might be the biggest sandbox hexcrawl ever and is generally speaking made of cool and awesome and obscure RL faerietale stuff and myth and whatnot.

Quote from: CRKruegerWe're kind of in a "OSR 2.0" wave now, with lots of Old School games coming out that are compatible, but aren't clones, and keep more to the general style of the older games rather then the rules.

In other words, OSR is outgrowing it's focus on D&D clones.

Spot on!

Premier · April 15, 2013, 10:38:15 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;646013Its fair to say that the AD&D Revival faction is the largest, and perhaps loudest faction in the OSR

But is it, really? Based on what metric? When I consider the various old-school D&D-based gaming blogs I frequent, my (personal, subjective) impression is that blogs and material based on AD&D 1st ed. or OSRIC certainly do not outpace OD&D and Basic-based stuff by a very significant margin. If at all.

RPGPundit · April 16, 2013, 04:06:49 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat;646013I almost agree, but TSR gave me several awesome settings and outside of Carcosa, the OSR hasn't given me a published setting that has really excited me like Dark Sun, Ravenloft or Planescape.

Have you looked at Arrows of Indra?

RPGPundit

Spinachcat · April 16, 2013, 04:46:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;646464Have you looked at Arrows of Indra?

Arrows of Indra and Spears at Dawn are both on my radar, but neither India nor Africa are cultures or mythologies that immediately appeal to me. That said, I will eventually own both games just out curiosity to read what you and SineNomine have written on these unusual subjects.

Spinachcat · April 16, 2013, 04:57:45 PM

Quote from: Premier;646050But is it, really? Based on what metric?

You are right that there are many fun blogs focused on 0e, Basic and their related clones. Perhaps more blogs than are focused on OSRIC, but I don't know.

Maybe I should say "Classic D&D Revival" instead of AD&D Revival because I don't draw a big line between 0e to 2e since all the material is essentially interchangeable. I run modified 0e and on the fly I can integrate almost any TSR 2e or OSRIC material.

I use "AD&D" to represent all pre-3e especially because on Dragonsfoot and K&K, there is strong emphasis (and outright worship) on the original texts and later scribblings of Gygax.

I don't view S&W Complete as OD&D, just S&W: White Box, but that is a personal preference.

VectorSigma · April 16, 2013, 05:02:38 PM

I have no expectation of getting "full settings" from the OSR, precisely because of the DIY aspect that drives the whole thing. Micro-settings, drop-ins, yes, but not a "full setting" in the sense of a Dark Sun, Planescape, etc.

Would be interesting, though.

estar · April 17, 2013, 10:47:18 AM

Quote from: VectorSigma;646488I have no expectation of getting "full settings" from the OSR, precisely because of the DIY aspect that drives the whole thing. Micro-settings, drop-ins, yes, but not a "full setting" in the sense of a Dark Sun, Planescape, etc.

Would be interesting, though.

Some consider my Majestic Wilderlands supplement a fairly complete setting.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=68864

RPGPundit · April 18, 2013, 12:51:01 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat;646479Arrows of Indra and Spears at Dawn are both on my radar, but neither India nor Africa are cultures or mythologies that immediately appeal to me. That said, I will eventually own both games just out curiosity to read what you and SineNomine have written on these unusual subjects.

Well, I hope it surprises you.

RPGPundit · April 18, 2013, 12:53:24 PM

Quote from: estar;646696Some consider my Majestic Wilderlands supplement a fairly complete setting.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=68864

I don't think I would, not in the sense he means.
Its a "complete" setting in the sense that the original greyhawk or blackmoor booklets were settings; there's a lot of new rules and mechanical stuff, and then a very rough and general overview of the world.
But for it to be "complete" the way Dark Sun is complete, say, you'd need to have a 64-page gazeteer, several smaller-scale maps (ideally hexmaps) showing the places of the world in far more detail, a dozen or so pages of NPCs, some adventure seeds if not a full-blown adventure, etc.

RPGPundit