I think that the Canon of old-school has been closed. Nothing can really be added to it and stand on the same level. The Canon was closed back in a magical age that cannot be revisited. We live in a different age.

The best that the OSR can do is some sort of deuterocanon.

It's true that there IS a number of varied and highly innovative games within the OSR - and of course Vulmea was a single line away from expressing this in a completely normal and reasonable way before finally giving in and coming across as an utter cunt. Having said that, I think silva is sort of right in that the Weird Fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth set of ensisibilites does seem to be rather heavily and arguably somewhat disproportionately over-represented (and I'm saying this as someone who dearly loves some of these settings / blogs / products).

Personally, I figured that this was just a phase, however enduring, and would eventually end with number of new and interesting voices appearing in the OSR blogosphere or whatever, taking it in new directions. It just hasn't happened yet.

QuoteI think that the Canon of old-school has been closed. Nothing can really be added to it and stand on the same level. The Canon was closed back in a magical age that cannot be revisited. We live in a different age.

The best that the OSR can do is some sort of deuterocanon.

I loathe any mention of an RPG / OSR / whateverhobby "canon" with every fiber of my being. A game, a system, a module or a blog should stand on the merits of its quality, on how interesting, fun and innovative it is; not on whether some self-designated game theologists deem it worthy to be raised into the canon along with the works of Our Fathers Gary & Dave. I know that SWN or ASSH have given me more cool ideas and/or better DM-ing tools than whatever official TSR product I've last perused, and that's the only sort of "canon" I give a damn about.

Quote from: Premier;643864the Weird Fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth set of ensisibilites does seem to be rather heavily and arguably somewhat disproportionately over-represented (and I'm saying this as someone who dearly loves some of these settings / blogs / products).

Personally, I figured that this was just a phase, however enduring, and would eventually end with number of new and interesting voices appearing in the OSR blogosphere or whatever, taking it in new directions. It just hasn't happened yet.

I agree it's over-represented, sure.  It's also "over-represented" in Appendix N, so anybody who gets their kicks as a gaming-history-fetishist (even a little bit) might be grabbing on to that as well.  Plus, it's a counter-movement, in that TSR/WotC haven't really done much, if anything, with that end of the spectrum in ages, so of course you're going to see more of it in the OSR flogosphere.  And - pure opinion here - a lot of what you see on some blogs is pure thought-experiment rather than notes from a game-in-progress, and that may make a difference as well.

"Weird" is overrepresented.  So is "gonzo", so is "metal", so is "fantasy fucking Vietnam" playstyle.  So is "Western Marches", "open table", "hexcrawl", "megadungeon".  But, as always, the blogs are a fraction of what's going on out there.  Tons of gamers, many of them playing very different ways.

It's easy to see these things trumpeted, but I think they're less common on a larger scale.  I'm sure plenty of people are using retroclones or the original games to play "high fantasy", "classic fantasy", "paladins & princesses", whatever the hell you want to call it, or just cranking through classic modules and having a great time of it.

Quote from: Premier;643864. . . and of course Vulmea was a single line away from expressing this in a completely normal and reasonable way before finally giving in and coming across as an utter cunt.

I started running weird fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth-influenced sandbox hexcrawls with SF elements before they were everywhere. Should I give up because some bitter pundits somewhere on the Internet think it is now too much? Stop right there, kiddo: I don't game for you. And that's all.

Quote from: VectorSigma;643889Plus, it's a counter-movement, in that TSR/WotC haven't really done much, if anything, with that end of the spectrum in ages, so of course you're going to see more of it in the OSR flogosphere.  And - pure opinion here - a lot of what you see on some blogs is pure thought-experiment rather than notes from a game-in-progress, and that may make a difference as well.

I see it as a backlash against all the squeaky clean TSR offerings of the late 80's and early 90's. They took out all the titty monsters and loot grabbing and put in sing-alongs and magic spaceships.

Not that some of it wasn't fun, some of it was. But there was a lot of saturday morning cartoon level sanitizing to D&D, some of which persists to this day.

QuoteI started running weird fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth-influenced sandbox hexcrawls with SF elements before they were everywhere. Should I give up because some bitter pundits somewhere on the Internet think it is now too much? Stop right there, kiddo: I don't game for you. And that's all.

I'll admit to only having browsed the last couple of pages, but did anyone actually suggest that there should be less of the S&S / whatever stuff? I think the general line of sentiment here is that there should be more of the rest, not less of this. No one was arguing to change the party line, not that there is one.

Quote from: Premier;644044I'll admit to only having browsed the last couple of pages, but did anyone actually suggest that there should be less of the S&S / whatever stuff?

Majority or not, it sure seems to be a loudly trumpeted opinion.

Quote from: Melan;644028I started running weird fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth-influenced sandbox hexcrawls with SF elements before they were everywhere. Should I give up because some bitter pundits somewhere on the Internet think it is now too much? Stop right there, kiddo: I don't game for you. And that's all.

Agreed, while weird fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth don't appeal to me personally (obviously sandbox hexcrawls do tho) it makes me happy that open gaming and the technology of the Internet is allowing those that do to share their stuff, perhaps make a little money, and grow their community with new gamers.

And if there are folks with an issue with that, well there is nothing to stop them from promoting, publishing, and playing the games they like. And if they still have a problem then they really should get a life.

Quote from: Melan;644054Majority or not, it sure seems to be a loudly trumpeted opinion.

It may be a reason of bottled - up dislike for glorification of gonzo, exploding across The Internets. Just like the love of gonzo exploded before on the OSR blogs. Just going through the usual motions, really - you know, movement, countermovement, all that jazz.

Personally, I never liked the so - called "gonzo" and probably never will, unless I land under a great GM who'll just run a fun campaign with it. But if you do - I think there's both a plenty of material for "gonzo" S&S/Weird Stuff DnD, as well for just S&S DnD.

Quote from: Piestrio;624517Night below is amazing.

Night Below is one of my favorites.

Is Reverse Dungeon 2E?

Quote from: Melan;644028I started running weird fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth-influenced sandbox hexcrawls with SF elements before they were everywhere.

And you'll be running them when the eye of fashion has settled elsewhere.  Nobody's judging you, Melan.

Quote from: Melan;644028I started running weird fantasy / S&S / Dying Earth-influenced sandbox hexcrawls with SF elements before they were everywhere.

This is sort of off topic, but I'm a bit surprised by that statement as I've never really considered Fomalhaut to be Weird Fantasy. S&S, Dying Earth, sci-fi, sure. Laced with modern-day social commentary and satire, yes. But I don't see the Weird element. At least, to me, that phrase conjures up something like Planet Algol, friendly extra-dimensional lobster-ghouls, long-lost ruins and items that are clearly 21st century rather than far future, goofy oversized bubble-space helmet,s and pop-culture asides without actual socio-political snarkiness. I'd be curious to learn what you personally consider W.F..

Quote from: Bill;644158Night Below is one of my favorites.

Is Reverse Dungeon 2E?

Yes it is, but I wonder how much it owes to the Orcs of Thar gazetteer?

Quote from: Fiasco;644275Yes it is, but I wonder how much it owes to the Orcs of Thar gazetteer?

I sooooo want to run a humanoid game now!

Use Orcs of Thar for the main setting, lead into the Giant, Depths, Drow modules.   Orcish warband steals the glory from those puny humans!