Quote from: Exploderwizard;758571OSR Taliban very strong. OSR Taliban fight the oppressors. OSR Taliban will rain fire on one major rpg system EACH WEEK until demands are met.

OMG this is my new sig.

Quote from: Skywalker;758758So, if you criticise 5e based on anything earlier than something next month, that's 'OSR Taliban' as everything up until next month is the good old days? In other words, you cast the net so wide that it includes any criticism of 5e. :confused: Do you even know what "OSR" means?

What a feeble attempt attempt to shift the goal posts (something you claim other do all the time) after you were clearly proven wrong and shown a coward for not doing what you said you would. Your continued flailing about, rather than just accepting that, only serves to make you look a complete incompetent and doing exactly what CRKrueger has correctly described you doing.

Trying to redefine what MarleyCat said in post 2 in direct reference to RPGPundit's original post with the definition I quoted, some 90 posts later, just shows you for the fool you are.

It's not shifting goal posts to point out your strawman, just so you know.

I said people have not called others "OSR Taliban" for simply criticizing 5e.  You said, "Here's Marley calling me one, which according to Pundit I'm not"

Pundit's opinion doesn't mean squat as to what that term is.  I thought I was pretty clear in explaining that.  He is not the final authority on what that term means, therefore, who cares what his definition is.  The point is that she never called you that simply because you criticized 5e.  She called you that for reason I already explained no less than twice to you.  It's the reason you've had so many responses in that thread think you're excuses are pretty damn silly for the basis of your criticism.

Quote from: EOTB;758715Really.  You equate someone's choice of RPGs to something like a person's sexuality in regards to something that should receive only positive reinforcement.  See, I don't have even close to that level of shit wrapped up in what game I play, or you play (read, whatever).

Just to clarify--Nope, I didn't use that example for "someone's choice of RPGs", but as an analogy for the example of prejudice towards somebody who enjoys the game products a different way (by primarily reading it instead of playing it regularly), and by using that fact to dismiss any opinion that person has, instead of actual debating the issues.

Quote from: TristramEvans;758763This is the exact opposite of that: it's people investing emotionally in an edition of the game so that any criticism of their preferred game is a personal slight that must be argued obsessively. In this case one edition that doesn't exist yet and another that will continue to exist regardless of the new game being published.

I think part of this is one key thing too--there's going to be a majority and a minority in terms of what gets played.  The big problem for some people is being a minority is not what they want--they want their view to be the majority so their playstyle can survive generations.  

And a lot of the emotion comes down to what will the future of D&D be, and what it will be like in the next decade.

Quote from: Windjammer;758766I honestly think this type of behaviour has nothing to do with being pro- or anti-5e per se. It's about the degree to which people are insecure over their edition preference. But that right there tells you a whole lot about such people, whether they're aggressively pro-5e, anti-5e, or whatever. They'd rather argue stupidly and in bad faith than have their preference put in doubt. It doesn't occur to them that reading contrary opinions does not necessarily devalidate their preference. That's why they can't keep on track with arguments, constantly derail it with ad hominems and '..B..b..but but I like it and your opinion doesn't change it'. Indeed it doesn't, and now keep these two points separate.

I didn't see it as an edition discussion at all. I saw it as a discussion about where an entry level product needed chargen if the aim of the product was to bring in non-rpg players.
It is relevant that the product is D&D but only because it is one of a handful of games that has the market penetration to even attempt that strategy (ie increasing the actual RPG play base as opposed to simply looking to steal some players from other existing games).

While I don't think Sacrosanct is as innocent as he likes to pretend, I also think some of you are being willfully ignorant.

There are about a half dozen guys who do the same thing over and over.

1. Some bit of information about 5e comes out.
2. Come out of the woodwork to talk about how that is the worst thing ever.
3. A few 5e fans explain why they think it isn't the worst thing ever, sometimes pulling more recent information to show how the suspicions of people are wrong.
4. Double down on ridiculousness (Omg, its illegal to share a free pdf between my friends!).
5. Eventually get quiet.
6. Wait for next bit of information about 5e to come out.
7. Repeat.

You know, if people did this once, it would be one thing. But when its the same people doing it over and over, you start to get the idea that they are just looking for things to bitch about. And I can get why the "5aviors" get tired of it.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;758834While I don't think Sacrosanct is as innocent as he likes to pretend, I also think some of you are being willfully ignorant.

There are about a half dozen guys who do the same thing over and over.

1. Some bit of information about 5e comes out.
2. Come out of the woodwork to talk about how that is the worst thing ever.
3. A few 5e fans explain why they think it isn't the worst thing ever, sometimes pulling more recent information to show how the suspicions of people are wrong.
4. Double down on ridiculousness (Omg, its illegal to share a free pdf between my friends!).
5. Eventually get quiet.
6. Wait for next bit of information about 5e to come out.
7. Repeat.

You know, if people did this once, it would be one thing. But when its the same people doing it over and over, you start to get the idea that they are just looking for things to bitch about. And I can get why the "5aviors" get tired of it.

When I first brought up that chargen is important to RPGs, I was immediately told that I was a filthy CharOp Denner by a 5avior. You might want to take a harder look at the 5aviors if you are going to point fingers.

If you think that people are reacting poorly to partial facts and bits of information being dribbled out by WotC, then that may be solved by having WotC quit pussyfooting around by giving us hints in order to increase the advertising buzz and just hold a public Q&A session. Holding WotC accountable for their shitty news releases should be considered.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;758834While I don't think Sacrosanct is as innocent as he likes to pretend, I also think some of you are being willfully ignorant.

Its almost like I didn't say this part.

And hell, if you want to talk about WotC being shitty at how they are releasing information: I'm almost certain no one here will disagree with you. But when a few people are chicken littling about the game itself every time WotC speaks, it starts to look more like an agenda than anything else.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;758834While I don't think Sacrosanct is as innocent as he likes to pretend, I also think some of you are being willfully ignorant.

There are about a half dozen guys who do the same thing over and over.

1. Some bit of information about 5e comes out.
2. Come out of the woodwork to talk about how that is the worst thing ever.
3. A few 5e fans explain why they think it isn't the worst thing ever, sometimes pulling more recent information to show how the suspicions of people are wrong.
4. Double down on ridiculousness (Omg, its illegal to share a free pdf between my friends!).
5. Eventually get quiet.
6. Wait for next bit of information about 5e to come out.
7. Repeat.

You know, if people did this once, it would be one thing. But when its the same people doing it over and over, you start to get the idea that they are just looking for things to bitch about. And I can get why the "5aviors" get tired of it.

What's funny is the exact same dynamic is at play on RPGnet, only it's not grognards but 4E fans taking shots. The common ground between the grognards and 4E fans seems to be a hatred of WotC, desire for 5E to fail, and ignorance of the actual contents of the playtest and information released so far.

Quote from: jeff37923;758836When I first brought up that chargen is important to RPGs, I was immediately told that I was a filthy CharOp Denner by a 5avior. You might want to take a harder look at the 5aviors if you are going to point fingers..

Good lord....

No one said that Jeff.  This is what I'm talking about, when I say that you keep making up arguments in your head to paint yourself as some victim.

What I did say, and what I've clarified to you at least a half dozen times now, was that someone who says chargen/advancement is the entire point fo the game is saying the same thing Denners and charoppers say.  Because that's a true statement; they do say that.  Somehow you turned that into "if I bring up importance of chargen, I'm a dirty charopper."  I don't know how, but somehow you managed to mangle the meaning up so bad that's what you took from it.

so please, stop making this shit up already.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;758834While I don't think Sacrosanct is as innocent as he likes to pretend.

You did write that, my bad.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;758834There are about a half dozen guys who do the same thing over and over.

Name fucking names or shut the fuck up.

This conspiracy bullshit is nauseating.

Quote from: RPGPundit;758402Since some people seem to think that "OSR Taliban" is a brand-new term I specifically invented on account of certain responses to the news about the D&D starter set or the Basic D&D PDF.  Likewise, some people seem to want to pretend that when I used that term it means that I think ALL the OSR (which, let's remember, I count myself as a member of) are like a 'taliban'.  

A+++ Troll, would read again.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;758842Name fucking names or shut the fuck up.

This conspiracy bullshit is nauseating.

Keep in mind that I don't think they are all "OSR Taliban" just "anti-5e", but:

1. Windjammer
2. Sommerjon
3. Skywalker

Borderline case:

3. Exploderwizard

"I'm going to jump in because Sacrosanct said something (whether it was accurate or not) and I have the biggest hate boner for him" cases:

4. Jeff

Hell, I don't personally agree with everything the 5e fan crowd is saying. I don't agree with everything Sacrosanct has said. But Jeff feels the need to jump in on every thread with Sacrosanct just to bash him WHETHER WHAT HE IS SAYING MAKES SENSE OR NOT. Jeff will throw his fucking towel in with anyone who is arguing with Sacrosanct, it doesn't matter what the argument is about.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;758849"I'm going to jump in because Sacrosanct said something (whether it was accurate or not) and I have the biggest hate boner for him" cases:

4. Jeff

Hell, I don't personally agree with everything the 5e fan crowd is saying. I don't agree with everything Sacrosanct has said. But Jeff feels the need to jump in on every thread with Sacrosanct just to bash him WHETHER WHAT HE IS SAYING MAKES SENSE OR NOT. Jeff will throw his fucking towel in with anyone who is arguing with Sacrosanct, it doesn't matter what the argument is about.

Could you link to some examples of this? I'm asking because I'm the one being brought up in 5E conversations while I'm at work.