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Author Topic: OSR Psionics my way  (Read 7810 times)

Wrath of God

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2021, 06:38:38 PM »
I'm not sure if it's some real looney jingoistic teory by some Estonians or what, but there was this lame high-school-atheist meme about hole in humanity development caused by Medieval Period.

So someone make simmilar meme with much longer human prehistory presumably taken from various looney quasi-Atlantic theories.

Here it is - original meme is in far right:



It has it's Wiki

https://hispedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Finno-Korean_Hyperwar#:~:text=The%20Finno%2DKorean%20Hyperwar%20was,from%20between%208245%20%2D%206172%20BC.

https://tumblrgallery.xyz/post/1574455.html

There are also other less funny variants:





"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
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GeekyBugle

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2021, 12:57:45 PM »
Option - rather than specific powers make them levels of bigger disciplines, and then each advance you can pick and choose what to develop further. Or even e

Like:

- Energy manipulation (Shields, Fire, Ice, Electricity)
- Sensory manipulation (Illusions of all sorts, including Mind Trap)
- Emotion manipulation (both reading and inducing)
- Thought control (including memory and knowledge manipulation)
- Biokinesis
- Probability manipulation (includes Teleportation)
- Mind projection (including mental time travel)

Way ahead of you, check the attachment.

Quote
True but I wanted unique names if possible. I like the using the sense of others idea, need to make that into one of the use examples.

Name them appropriately to the setting.

For instance if your setting is antediluvian prehyperborean Finno-Korean Hyper-War give each power double Finnic / Korean name ;)

What makes you think those names aren't setting appropriate? (Guess I could make up Venusian words no one is going to use but nah.)

« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 01:08:14 PM by GeekyBugle »
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GeekyBugle

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2021, 01:05:23 PM »
I feel like you've got a lot, especially since these are supposed to be Disciplines. But lemme give you some more. Some of these are more like techniques than others.

Somatokinesis: Physical augmentation using a mixture of biological and telekinetic manipulation. Might fall under Biokinesis.
Astral Projection: I know this is something else, but I use it to refer to creating weapons with your own mind. This also extends to constructs, but blades are the easiest. If your projection is broken, it causes psychic damage.
Psionic Shield: You have this already, but I like to extend this to physical powers at the highest levels. Nothing makes a telekinetic freak out like realizing he can't throw a car at a guy.
Bio Leech: Drain your target's bio electricity. Probably too small for a total discipline.
Teleportation: Move between two spaces without occupying the space in between.
Probability Manipulation: Influence the outcome of events (dice rolls) by twisting luck in your favor.
Mind Trap: Mentally cage the target, making them experience another reality that's just in their head. Time can be warped too; 1 minute outside, 10 or more minutes inside.

Hadn't seen your post cuz I haven't been online, I like somatokinesis, it's to give you an attribute boost right?
Bio Leech goes under Biokinesis, thanks I'm in need of entries for that particular one.

Not too sure about teleportation or probability manipulation tho, first both sound too much like magic and second which main discipline would they go under?

I'm not sure I grok what you mean in Psionic Shield tho, care to expand?

Mind Trap, I like it, I like it a lot.
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Wrath of God

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2021, 02:11:43 PM »
Quote
Not too sure about teleportation or probability manipulation tho, first both sound too much like magic and second which main discipline would they go under?

Psionic based teleportation seems to be quite old trope. Like think Nightcrawler from X-Men, like 95% of their powers goes under psionics.
Even prob.manipulation of Scarlet Witch while she is IIRC later proper witch, spellcaster, her basic probability meddling is psionic mutation.

I think Probability Manipulation should be it's own schtick with own powers tree starting with adding bonuses, then re-rolls, and so on.
Now that I think it Teleportation could be made part of P.M. Rather than Warp Space-time itself you can just probabilitate yourself into different place by QUANTS.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

Pat
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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2021, 02:22:13 PM »
Quote
Not too sure about teleportation or probability manipulation tho, first both sound too much like magic and second which main discipline would they go under?

Psionic based teleportation seems to be quite old trope. Like think Nightcrawler from X-Men, like 95% of their powers goes under psionics.
Even prob.manipulation of Scarlet Witch while she is IIRC later proper witch, spellcaster, her basic probability meddling is psionic mutation.

I think Probability Manipulation should be it's own schtick with own powers tree starting with adding bonuses, then re-rolls, and so on.
Now that I think it Teleportation could be made part of P.M. Rather than Warp Space-time itself you can just probabilitate yourself into different place by QUANTS.
Depending on your underlying conception of how psionics works, you could group powers in many different ways. Thinking about some of the (pseudo-)theory underlying it, and whether to update more traditionally Campbellian explanations to more modern concepts like quantum tunneling, and then regrouping as necessary, might help adjudicating interactions between different powers.

GeekyBugle

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2022, 05:23:03 PM »
Quote
Not too sure about teleportation or probability manipulation tho, first both sound too much like magic and second which main discipline would they go under?

Psionic based teleportation seems to be quite old trope. Like think Nightcrawler from X-Men, like 95% of their powers goes under psionics.
Even prob.manipulation of Scarlet Witch while she is IIRC later proper witch, spellcaster, her basic probability meddling is psionic mutation.

I think Probability Manipulation should be it's own schtick with own powers tree starting with adding bonuses, then re-rolls, and so on.
Now that I think it Teleportation could be made part of P.M. Rather than Warp Space-time itself you can just probabilitate yourself into different place by QUANTS.
Depending on your underlying conception of how psionics works, you could group powers in many different ways. Thinking about some of the (pseudo-)theory underlying it, and whether to update more traditionally Campbellian explanations to more modern concepts like quantum tunneling, and then regrouping as necessary, might help adjudicating interactions between different powers.

Wouldn't manipulating quants or whatever require you to at least know those things exist?

Relevant because of the setting I'm going to include Psionics in. Pulp Venus, I'm not sure this would fit in that setting, but I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

Anyhow I might go for an open system, more effects based than usual in OSR games. Where the PC has X Power and has to negotiate with the GM how he wants to use it. Either that or the Class + Powers might end up being a suplement since this is really hard work creating all from scratch.

And I'm really busy populating the planet with alien life forms and stating them.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Wrath of God

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2022, 08:04:03 PM »
Quote
Wouldn't manipulating quants or whatever require you to at least know those things exist?

Depends how smart your psionics are.
Like there is this notion of whether your magic is smart or dumb in understanding your intentions. Ergo how deep you need understand nature of your powers and their relation to physics/metaphysics to really use them.

With psionicism you can do things science of your Pulp Venus or modern Earth consideres impossible and don't understand how those work - and you just do them.
Does your psionic need to calculate in his mind physical elements to push car exactly 12 metres or is it done more on subconcious level by mysterious nature of XSP powers.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

Spinachcat

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2022, 08:19:19 PM »
I wrote an article about OSR psionics for Knockspell #6 back in 2011. Tenkar wrote a review:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_reviews_info.php?&reviews_id=63993&products_id=94955

GeekyBugle

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2022, 08:22:08 PM »
Quote
Wouldn't manipulating quants or whatever require you to at least know those things exist?

Depends how smart your psionics are.
Like there is this notion of whether your magic is smart or dumb in understanding your intentions. Ergo how deep you need understand nature of your powers and their relation to physics/metaphysics to really use them.

With psionicism you can do things science of your Pulp Venus or modern Earth consideres impossible and don't understand how those work - and you just do them.
Does your psionic need to calculate in his mind physical elements to push car exactly 12 metres or is it done more on subconcious level by mysterious nature of XSP powers.

Psionics aren't smart, dumb or anything in between, it's the psion who uses it and determines how it's used. It's not a living energy whatever.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2022, 08:25:20 PM »
I wrote an article about OSR psionics for Knockspell #6 back in 2011. Tenkar wrote a review:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_reviews_info.php?&reviews_id=63993&products_id=94955

Thanks, cheking it out.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Wrath of God

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2022, 08:26:54 PM »
But still question is how smart psion have to be to use own powers. Does telepath needs to understand neurology otherwise he would blow someone's head off? If not... then I see no reason why he could not teleport via quantum tunneling or space folding without knowing jack-shit about quantum physics.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

GeekyBugle

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2022, 08:38:06 PM »
But still question is how smart psion have to be to use own powers. Does telepath needs to understand neurology otherwise he would blow someone's head off? If not... then I see no reason why he could not teleport via quantum tunneling or space folding without knowing jack-shit about quantum physics.

Is the telepath mindhandling your neurological pathways? I would think that would fall under Biokinesis. And yes, I do think the psion needs a certain amount of knowledge to perform certain things, for instance making a cut cloth is easy, but performing psichosurgery does need some anatomic knowledge.

Maybe I haven't mentioned it but I don't want magic with a very thin coat of paint. It has to feel/function different or I'm not using it.
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Wrath of God

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2022, 09:40:31 PM »
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Is the telepath mindhandling your neurological pathways? I would think that would fall under Biokinesis. And yes, I do think the psion needs a certain amount of knowledge to perform certain things, for instance making a cut cloth is easy, but performing psichosurgery does need some anatomic knowledge.

If telepath cannot handle neurological pathways of other person - how on earth can he read thoughts? And even more - send own thought to given person as form of communication. There is no esoteric thought dimension - if you scowl at quantum teleportation - well then I'm sorry thoughts are at least on science level just in our neuron cells. Same with empathy, emotional manipulation, perception manipulation. It's all BRAIN. Do with it what you want?

Quote
Maybe I haven't mentioned it but I don't want magic with a very thin coat of paint. It has to feel/function different or I'm not using it.

That's bad considering whole pulp psionic shtick came from certain less spiritualistic aspects of XIX-XX century esoteric interest. Sure you can easily differentiate it from real high magic let's call it - hermeticism and other. Ritualistic spiritual stuff. But magic as psychic powers that's specifically pulp magic. And D&D magic... is I dunno even, it's try to be more like medieval magic, but demands of system make it more like superpower Mandrake Magician.

I'd say whole pulp thing is - you have superpowers. Depends how you paint the setting you can show them as results of psionic powers/arcane magic/gamma ray mutation - but ultimately they lack real root neither in religion nor magic nor science. Religion/magic/science are just thin paint... if you dig deep enough - there is no much difference on pulpish level between Professor X, some pulp era telepath, powerful enchanter wizard or saint with powers to see through people's bullshit.

So either invent really good pseudo-physics to justify and limit your specific psionic powers, or just you know accept it's just elf-bullshit painted with sci-fi chrome paint, and organise powers from gaming perspective, and just give them proper flavour in language and lots of handwavium.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

GeekyBugle

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2022, 11:53:40 PM »
Quote
Is the telepath mindhandling your neurological pathways? I would think that would fall under Biokinesis. And yes, I do think the psion needs a certain amount of knowledge to perform certain things, for instance making a cut cloth is easy, but performing psichosurgery does need some anatomic knowledge.

If telepath cannot handle neurological pathways of other person - how on earth can he read thoughts? And even more - send own thought to given person as form of communication. There is no esoteric thought dimension - if you scowl at quantum teleportation - well then I'm sorry thoughts are at least on science level just in our neuron cells. Same with empathy, emotional manipulation, perception manipulation. It's all BRAIN. Do with it what you want?

Quote
Maybe I haven't mentioned it but I don't want magic with a very thin coat of paint. It has to feel/function different or I'm not using it.

That's bad considering whole pulp psionic shtick came from certain less spiritualistic aspects of XIX-XX century esoteric interest. Sure you can easily differentiate it from real high magic let's call it - hermeticism and other. Ritualistic spiritual stuff. But magic as psychic powers that's specifically pulp magic. And D&D magic... is I dunno even, it's try to be more like medieval magic, but demands of system make it more like superpower Mandrake Magician.

I'd say whole pulp thing is - you have superpowers. Depends how you paint the setting you can show them as results of psionic powers/arcane magic/gamma ray mutation - but ultimately they lack real root neither in religion nor magic nor science. Religion/magic/science are just thin paint... if you dig deep enough - there is no much difference on pulpish level between Professor X, some pulp era telepath, powerful enchanter wizard or saint with powers to see through people's bullshit.

So either invent really good pseudo-physics to justify and limit your specific psionic powers, or just you know accept it's just elf-bullshit painted with sci-fi chrome paint, and organise powers from gaming perspective, and just give them proper flavour in language and lots of handwavium.

The same way a radio can "read" radio waves from the emisor, and if it's a two way radio can both "read" and emit. My CB isn't manipulating yours in order for you and I to be able to communicate thru radio waves.

Thus telepathy is different from telekinetics and both are different from the other psionic powers, who are also different to each other.

As for the rest of your post... Well, that's your opinion man.

I know you love to assert your opinions as fact, doesn't mean they are.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Wrath of God

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Re: OSR Psionics my way
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2022, 06:33:58 AM »
Quote
As for the rest of your post... Well, that's your opinion man.

I know you love to assert your opinions as fact, doesn't mean they are.

But... it is.
Unless you have really well-done metaphysics/fake-physics up-down to simulate it's results in game, all those powers are just powers. You can colour them as magic, as psionicism, as mutant superpowers, or divine gifts from Allah. Doesn't matter, because without well proper model of working - they serve merely as gaming/plot devices in your game. Which TBH magic in D&D always did - there never was proper notion about nature of Arcane, it just was - for a game, just like later psionicism. :P

And if there is real deep difference I'd love to here what it is.

Quote
The same way a radio can "read" radio waves from the emisor, and if it's a two way radio can both "read" and emit. My CB isn't manipulating yours in order for you and I to be able to communicate thru radio waves.

Thus telepathy is different from telekinetics and both are different from the other psionic powers, who are also different to each other.

OK if telepathy don't allow for communication and influencing thoughts then I guess, it can be form of perception of electric currents. Yet again it would have to be SMART PSIONICS, because good luck deciphering thoughts from you know actual electric field of someone's brain :P
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"