If someone would be so kind, I'd like guidance on what the intended DC of resisting a D&D 3.5 vampire's Dominate ability.

So, if a vampire tries their Domination ability on a victim, who can resist with a Will saving throw. It looks to me like the DC would be per the Dominate Person spell at spell level 12, so the DC would be 10 + 12 for the spell plus the vampire's "bonus for the relevant ability"... the vampire happens to be a sorceress with Charisma 23 for +6... does that get added in too, or not because it's not actually her casting the spell as a sorceress? So "just" DC 22, or DC 28? Or something else?

Also, the spells description, right after mentioning additional +2 saves if ordered to do things against the subject's nature, says, "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out." It's not clear to me if that is only if the save is made, or if under no circumstances will a Dominated subject accept obviously self-destructive orders?

It is not spell level 12; it is caster level 12. Those are two different things. The former is irrelevant because it is a (Su)pernatural ability; the latter reflects the difficulty of dispelling the effect.

Because it is a (Su)pernatural ability, the save DC is 10 plus half the monster's hit dice, rounded down, plus the Charisma modifier. The (Su), (Sp), and (Ex) after special abilities and qualities are defined somewhere in the MM (I forget where), along with the formula I just quoted.

As for your vampire sorcerer with a Charisma of 23, the Will save DC would be 16 (10 + Cha mod) plus half her hit dice, rounded down.

Quote from: Scrivener of Doom;1118663It is not spell level 12; it is caster level 12. Those are two different things. The former is irrelevant because it is a (Su)pernatural ability; the latter reflects the difficulty of dispelling the effect.

Because it is a (Su)pernatural ability, the save DC is 10 plus half the monster's hit dice, rounded down, plus the Charisma modifier. The (Su), (Sp), and (Ex) after special abilities and qualities are defined somewhere in the MM (I forget where), along with the formula I just quoted.

As for your vampire sorcerer with a Charisma of 23, the Will save DC would be 16 (10 + Cha mod) plus half her hit dice, rounded down.

All correct as far as I can tell, but there is the possibility of it taking a feat (Ability Focus, I think?) that can further increase it by +2.

Half hit dice? Ok, I didn't notice a reference to that. Makes a much more possible-to-resist result though, which is probably good.


Thanks very much, folks!

Quote from: HappyDaze;1118683All correct as far as I can tell, but there is the possibility of it taking a feat (Ability Focus, I think?) that can further increase it by +2.

And not just Ability Focus: I was going to mention that feat, then I realised I would have to refer to a few more. I just kept it simple for now.

Quote from: Skarg;1118704Half hit dice? Ok, I didn't notice a reference to that. Makes a much more possible-to-resist result though, which is probably good.


Thanks very much, folks!

The MM gives the formula somewhere. Also, if you look at the two vampire stat blocks. if you use the formula I quoted, you will get the same DC results.