Quote from: Orphan81;1129775Repost from the other Wod Thread..

In the way I presented Vampires in my own homebrew Off-brand WoD setting, they were very family orientated to make them different from The white wolf version.

Being embraced brought you into a new family, the supernatural blood tie gave you a loyalty to those who also shared your blood.

Vampires had 4 stages of Life and how it allowed them to create other Vampires. Starting off as a fledgling, a recent embrace, you were unable to truly create other Vampires... except for the potential of feral, blood crazed, zombie like creatures made by accident.

When a Vampire eventually achieved "Adult Status" they would become known as a "Lord" or "Lady"... and would be able to sire one other Vampire as a sort of mate, child, or sibling to themselves. They shared part of their soul with this Vampire and were unable to create any others until they grew older and greater in power, or until their created one died.

Eventually, A Vampire would become a "Master". Master Vampires had no limit on the broods they could create, but were old enough and wise enough, surviving to that age and power.. not to over do it. Still, the Master would stand as a grand Patriarch or Matriarch of a family line.

Ancients were Vampires that evolved into something else entirely... As Vampires carried an embodiment of Death within them, they became Psychopomps that fed on the very essence of Death itself. They would cross over into the Underworld, and feed on restless spirits, becoming gods of death there.

There were clans of a sort, known as "Bloodlines" which were basically founded by very powerful Masters, most of which had passed on to become Ancients. Names like Dracula, Carmilla, Orlov, and the like... Anything a GM would want to invent and use that could give a particular bonus to certain powers, along with a certain inherited family flaw of sorts too. The potential being for GMs able to invent whatever families they wanted for their particular setting.

Somewhere I read something very much like this, except all vampires rose at first as feral, blood crazed monsters, with almost no brain and needed to be "curated" for a period of time until they broke out of it. Some never did and their maker had to kill them.

Not sure if in the same place I also read about in order to turn someone a vampire had to keep it as livestock for long enough so the human didn't die but turn, and even then most never rose, and almost zero ever rose if killed in their first bite.

I just heard about Dark Streets & Darker Secrets. It's based off of Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells. Sounds like a "Hunters" game:

QuoteIt's a game about modern adventures in the world we live today, only with a layer of supernatural weirdness and horror. Characters are people who have found out about the mysteries and horrors that exist in the world and have decided to do something about it, be it battle it, join it, or simply explore its possibilities in any way they see fit. They will battle evil cultists, corrupted ghosts, bloodsucking vampires, and frenzied werewolves, or maybe they will be the horrors of others. This edition of the game assumes the reader knows the principles of what role-playing games are and how they are played.

What will you get with this book? Not only you will get a complete game system for urban fantasy, action horror and street and sorcery stories, you will also find tools and generators to create cities, neighborhoods, organizations, factions, NPS, monsters, ancient and sinister artifacts, complete adventures, which can all be of great help to inspire Referees of all modern games!

Quote from: Aglondir;1129794I just heard about Dark Streets & Darker Secrets. It's based off of Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells. Sounds like a "Hunters" game:

Yep, it sounds like that, not really a fan of their other game tho, might see if I can buy this one if it's not too expensive.

Not familiar with this myself but I've read good things about it:

Esoteric Enterprises - Complete - Dying Stylishly Games | DriveThruRPG.com

OSR for WoD?

From a design standpoint, I would highly recommend going down the GODBOUND and/or MUTANT FUTURE route. Why? WoD is about starting with a powerful character out of the gate, but still enjoy an advancement arc.

I see no reason a game about Vampires vs. Werewolves vs. Wizards vs. Fey vs. Hunters would not be cool.

Personally, the WoD system never added anything to gameplay. OSR at the core would be a more dangerous combat engine and TO ME, that would be an advantage for the game.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129731Wilderness is just a dungeon in disguise, cities are mega dungeons, I see no difference there

I can't see how the comparison is productive? I mean, D&D is centered on physical challenges and the dungeon is a framework to explore that. A game like Vampire is (in theory) a social-political one, so it changes everything.

A more coherent framework for it would be a relationship map tracking the group reputation with various factions or individuals or something, and the challenges/threats would come from there. Which is already what most urban  modern games do in some way (Kult, Vampire5, Urban Shadows, Undying, Blades in the Dark, etc).1

These are all very good ideas. Very nice discussions. Thanks guys!

See, this is why I decided to write a modular multiverse. I don't want to arbitrarily discount ideas just because they don't fit with setting XYZ.

So I want to ask you guys: what would YOU like to see in an urban fantasy multiverse that aims to compete with World of Darkness?

EDIT: For example, I like having magical traditions a la Opening the Dark's art/praxis mechanic, but the purple paradigm's inconsistent consensus reality is too much of a headache.

Quote from: Itachi;1129806I can't see how the comparison is productive? I mean, D&D is centered on physical challenges and the dungeon is a framework to explore that. A game like Vampire is (in theory) a social-political one, so it changes everything.

A more coherent framework for it would be a relationship map tracking the group reputation with various factions or individuals or something, and the challenges/threats would come from there. Which is already what most urban  modern games do in some way (Kult, Vampire5, Urban Shadows, Undying, Blades in the Dark, etc).1

I'm responding to a very different claim than that you're doing here, meaning that D&D/OSR is about dungeoneering, hence my argument.

D&D is centered around what you make it, and in WoD there's also physical combat, intrigue, diplomacy, mental problem solving, just like in D&D, it's up to the GM to decide the mixture of those elements.

I posted how I did Vampires for my own Knock off WoD style setting, so I'll talk about how I did Werewolves next as well.

I went with Lycanthropy being a Curse for the most part. There are two different types of Lycanthropes, cursed and "Natural". But the Natural are not some actual spiritual part of the world, or anything akin to that. It's just what happens when two Lycanthropes get together and have children, their children will carry the curse as well.

The curse itself can only be transferred on the night of the Full Moon, and of course, you have to survive being attacked by them as well. Other than that, Werewolves had 3 forms, wolf, giant killing machine wolfman, and human.

But the strange thing about Werewolves I wanted to do, to make them different from whitewolf werewolves is make them naturally hate one another. There's an instinctual aggression towards one another to them. An inherent feeling of territory being invaded when they see one another, hackles raising and a very uncomfortable feeling in one another's presence. So you don't see Werewolves going around and forming packs with one another.

There was an exception to this. Anyone the Werewolf infected themselves they wouldn't hate, and their own descendants they wouldn't hate either. Making werewolf Clans a thing, but also very rare.

I also had this strange phenomenon among Werewolves known as "Alphas". Werewolf Alphas didn't engender a feeling of hatred among other werewolves, and could even suppress that feeling among other Werewolves. Allowing an actual Werewolf community to form underneath them. The general Werewolf population was ignorant on how "Alphas" come about. But it was actually a terrible ritual that had to be conducted by the would-be Alpha in question.

The Alpha would have to knowingly cannibalize their immediate family members, or closest approximation of them. A ritual complete rejection of their former humanity. This would alter the curse within them, allowing them to overcome the natural aggression felt among other Werewolves and control a werewolf community.

Quote from: Orphan81;1129775Repost from the other Wod Thread..

In the way I presented Vampires in my own homebrew Off-brand WoD setting, they were very family orientated to make them different from The white wolf version.

Being embraced brought you into a new family, the supernatural blood tie gave you a loyalty to those who also shared your blood.

Vampires had 4 stages of Life and how it allowed them to create other Vampires. Starting off as a fledgling, a recent embrace, you were unable to truly create other Vampires... except for the potential of feral, blood crazed, zombie like creatures made by accident.

When a Vampire eventually achieved "Adult Status" they would become known as a "Lord" or "Lady"... and would be able to sire one other Vampire as a sort of mate, child, or sibling to themselves. They shared part of their soul with this Vampire and were unable to create any others until they grew older and greater in power, or until their created one died.

Eventually, A Vampire would become a "Master". Master Vampires had no limit on the broods they could create, but were old enough and wise enough, surviving to that age and power.. not to over do it. Still, the Master would stand as a grand Patriarch or Matriarch of a family line.

Ancients were Vampires that evolved into something else entirely... As Vampires carried an embodiment of Death within them, they became Psychopomps that fed on the very essence of Death itself. They would cross over into the Underworld, and feed on restless spirits, becoming gods of death there.

There were clans of a sort, known as "Bloodlines" which were basically founded by very powerful Masters, most of which had passed on to become Ancients. Names like Dracula, Carmilla, Orlov, and the like... Anything a GM would want to invent and use that could give a particular bonus to certain powers, along with a certain inherited family flaw of sorts too. The potential being for GMs able to invent whatever families they wanted for their particular setting.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129777Somewhere I read something very much like this, except all vampires rose at first as feral, blood crazed monsters, with almost no brain and needed to be "curated" for a period of time until they broke out of it. Some never did and their maker had to kill them.

Not sure if in the same place I also read about in order to turn someone a vampire had to keep it as livestock for long enough so the human didn't die but turn, and even then most never rose, and almost zero ever rose if killed in their first bite.

Quote from: Orphan81;1129881I posted how I did Vampires for my own Knock off WoD style setting, so I'll talk about how I did Werewolves next as well.

I went with Lycanthropy being a Curse for the most part. There are two different types of Lycanthropes, cursed and "Natural". But the Natural are not some actual spiritual part of the world, or anything akin to that. It's just what happens when two Lycanthropes get together and have children, their children will carry the curse as well.

The curse itself can only be transferred on the night of the Full Moon, and of course, you have to survive being attacked by them as well. Other than that, Werewolves had 3 forms, wolf, giant killing machine wolfman, and human.

But the strange thing about Werewolves I wanted to do, to make them different from whitewolf werewolves is make them naturally hate one another. There's an instinctual aggression towards one another to them. An inherent feeling of territory being invaded when they see one another, hackles raising and a very uncomfortable feeling in one another's presence. So you don't see Werewolves going around and forming packs with one another.

There was an exception to this. Anyone the Werewolf infected themselves they wouldn't hate, and their own descendants they wouldn't hate either. Making werewolf Clans a thing, but also very rare.

I also had this strange phenomenon among Werewolves known as "Alphas". Werewolf Alphas didn't engender a feeling of hatred among other werewolves, and could even suppress that feeling among other Werewolves. Allowing an actual Werewolf community to form underneath them. The general Werewolf population was ignorant on how "Alphas" come about. But it was actually a terrible ritual that had to be conducted by the would-be Alpha in question.

The Alpha would have to knowingly cannibalize their immediate family members, or closest approximation of them. A ritual complete rejection of their former humanity. This would alter the curse within them, allowing them to overcome the natural aggression felt among other Werewolves and control a werewolf community.

Yeah those, sound like pretty interesting campaign settings. One of the things I disliked about WoD was that sometimes books would have brief sections detailing alternate campaign settings, but then never did anything with those. I'd like to go the opposite route and have long dissertations on alternate campaign settings.

I wanted to do a modular multiverse similar to how OGL sometimes does, where I'd explore various conceptions of vampirism, lycanthropy, etc and provide pointers on how to fit it into various campaign settings.

Maybe something in the vein of the mini-settings that were released for Chronicles of Darkness in the last years of 1e?

For example, you know how many World of Darkness games have technophile or techgnostic fraternities or antagonists? The virtual adepts, the nosferatus, the god-machine, the glasswalkers, wraiths riding the electron highway, etc. Just today I had this idea for a mini-setting dealing with technophiles and techgnostics in that vein. (So a number of splats are technophiles and technopaths, and a few are full-blown techgnostics. Techno-vampires, techno-werewolves, techno-ghosts, techno-wizards, etc. You can visit Cyberspace as if it was a real place. You have an incursion by the Matrix's agents, viruses from beyond, etc.)

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129864I'm responding to a very different claim than that you're doing here, meaning that D&D/OSR is about dungeoneering, hence my argument.

D&D is centered around what you make it, and in WoD there's also physical combat, intrigue, diplomacy, mental problem solving, just like in D&D, it's up to the GM to decide the mixture of those elements.

No offense, but If you think D&D as a system is centered on whatever the GM wants, then there's no point in going further in this discussion as we see games in fundamentally different ways.

Quote from: Itachi;1129893No offense, but If you think D&D as a system is centered on whatever the GM wants, then there's no point in going further in this discussion as we see games in fundamentally different ways.

Well, guess you're the type of GM/Player that plays it R.A.W.

Yes, I agree, there's no point in going further.

Does anybody want to discuss more world building?

For example, if we wanted to make a "animate" splat, there's a bunch of public domain inspirations you could use instead of copying Promethean.

The homunculus of medieval alchemy, made of flesh grown in an alchemical laboratory.

The golem of Jewish folklore, animated from clay by Kabbalah lore.

The galatea of Greek myth, animated from stone by a desire for companionship.

The automaton of Greek myth, animated from metal by the divine forge.

The pinocchio of Italian fairytale, animated from wood by a father's love.

The nephele of Greek myth, animated from cloud by divine trickery.

The moowis of Algonquin folklore, animated from snow by a suitor spurned.

The scarecrow, animated from cloth and straw.

Etc.

To move a discussion from another thread:

Quote from: Orphan81;1129400It is a nightmare. However that being said, I own all of those other games you just mentioned, and none of them are as Good as the World of Darkness titles for me and other fans. It's a love of the setting, and many of the mechanics. 20th Anniversary editions basically gave us the best version of the Classic WoD system and the best version of the setting... So many of us are just sticking with that and ignoring most of 5th edition.

In another conversation in another forum, somebody told me something simple: World of Darkness started with one book. It grew over many years of accumulation by many contributors. You can't expect an equivalent competitor to just pop into existence.

A world of darkness alternative would need to build itself over years. Which would be pretty costly. I can understand why those indie games you tried and disliked weren't able to provide the same experience as a game with hundreds of books made over many years.

That's why I started this thread. Building a competitor with the same breadth of lore would take years, just like building World of Darkness did. If I want to build an alternative, then I have to do it piecemeal. Book by book, edition by edition, year after year.

What do you guys think?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1129990...

What do you guys think?

It's a fine goal. But frankly, I would want to see a core system that is used to tie all the supernatural types together. Trying to memorize 100 different power lists is tedious. There should be a core system with powers, then supplements detailing the supernaturals. You could do it like a) basic system with basic powers for normals then b) the supernatural powers supplement for more powerful types then c) a series of books detailing each supernatural type with suggestions on how to put them in as foes or play them. If 8 different supernatural types have "multiple actions and unnatural speed", I would want that to work one way, not 8 different ways.