Quote from: Itachi;1130215Mind letting us know the link?

It starts on this page, sorry: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3098558&pagenumber=980&perpage=40

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1130181Is the Underworld the actual afterlife or a limbo/purgatory realm?

Probably a combination of In Nomine and Wraith, where there's a Heaven, a Hell, and an In-between. Limbo? Shadowlands? Underworld? Not sure what to call it yet.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1130181I'm confused. Are you saying don't invent a generic system from scratch and just use one that already exists?

Sorry I was unclear. Not suggesting using an existing system. I would definitely recommend creating a generic power system as a base, customizing it for each splat.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1130209I'm familiar. I find the tone of the whole thing obnoxious and condescending. It's also really silly in parts, like listing "World Crime League" as a splat. I recommend checking out the review from the SomethingAwful "FATAL & Friends" review thread.

Understood, I would not use it either. But one thing I do appreciate about Trollman's work is he researches and identifies what is public domain.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1130217It starts on this page, sorry: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3098558&pagenumber=980&perpage=40

Well, first thanks for the link.

The main critique was, not original... ripped off WoD...

Shure that's right, that was the point of the exercise as far as I know. WoD with better rules.
Someone could argue if he hit this goal or not, but nobody tried it in that thread.

The other main critique where the typos and layout. While valid, it's still an self published work and not really surprising.

OK, some rules critique was there (the backround skill is to powerfull according to the thread), but mostly it was Frank bashing.
Frank bashing followed by how awesome 4e D&D is :rolleyes: ...

Quote from: Aglondir;1130221Probably a combination of In Nomine and Wraith, where there's a Heaven, a Hell, and an In-between. Limbo? Shadowlands? Underworld? Not sure what to call it yet.

If I'm making ghosts a thing, then I'm not adding any place called an Underworld unless it's the Greek/Mayan/Chinese/Hebrew/whatever afterlife. I dislike how Wraith and Geist messed that up by conflating the Underworld with Limbo/Purgatory.

In my settings, ghosts live on Earth. If they have no unfinished business, then they cross over and are basically permadead unless a necromancer calls them up for knowledge seeking or something.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1130217It starts on this page, sorry: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3098558&pagenumber=980&perpage=40

Looks like someone else's (very derivative) 90's WoD homebrew. Not really my thing, but thanks anyway.

Quote from: Aglondir;1129641I've been thinking about a project lately which is exactly that (save the humanity part.) It's basically the campaign I wanted to run decades ago, but my group could never leave behind the White Wolf elements, and I got tired of pounding my head against a wall. But I've always wanted to necro it, but with an entirely different system to make sure the White Wolf baggage doesn't get in the way.  I'm looking at using a modified B/X core, much like Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine Publishing) does for his games. He's hands-down the king of using the B/X chassis for modern genres, if not one of the best OSR publishers around, and if I can manage to produce something with 1/10th of that quality I will consider it a success. The goal is not to create a "Vampire: the Masquerade with the serial numbers filed off" but to riff off the World of Darkness and a few other influences. If V:TM is an elaborately decorated, multi-layered wedding cake, this project is more like a stack of pancakes.


What's Out

• This won't be an urban fantasy game, but a vampire game. Mainly because designing all of those splats is too much work. My goal is to limit the focus on one thing. If it works, I can expand into different areas in subsequent products.
• No White Wolf lingo. I'm going to assume it's all under copyright, so you won't find Camirilla, Sabbat, Brujah, Nosferatu, Embrace, Kindred, Diablerie, Rotshreck, etc.
  
• Not too many of the V:TM concepts will survive. Some are unavoidable, for example, there's got to be a way to create new vampires. But I'm not going call it the Embrace. And there will be diablerie, but I need a new word for it.
  
• There are no vampire clans. But like any B/X game, there are classes, which are a mix of what you do and what you are. But these will not resemble the WW clans.
• There's no war between the badass violent sect and the corrupt but cultured sect, nor a war between the vampires and the werewolves, nor a war between the ruling class and the anarchists.
• There's no metaplot. There are setting elements, but they provide a structure, not a straight-jacket. The game is about your campaign and your players, not some grandiose preordained story.
• The game is not about "personal horror" or "losing your humanity" or wallowing in guilt and angst about the monster you've become. It is unabashedly what some critics call "superheroes with fangs." Because let's be honest: living forever and getting super powers is fucking awesome.

What's In

• System-wise, it will be a modified B/X chassis, with classes, levels, hit points, (ascending) armor class, saving throws, and a skill system with about 30 skills.
• The skills will blur the line between the mundane and the supernatural. For example, climb doesn't mean you climb a wall with hand holds and gear. it means you climb up a sheer vertical surface like a spider. Intimidate doesn't mean you threaten a guy with a gun and he backs down, it means he runs away in terror.
• Magic will be much like you're used to. Some spells will be familiar, while others will be new. Clerical magic is slightly different. Instead of spells, you learn Secrets and Rituals. Since all vampires can self-heal, the cleric isn't a heal-bot, but focuses on defense, information, and esoteric vampire lore.

So, what's the setting like?

• The World: The world is violent and corrupt. I love the the general feel of the WOD, where the game world is a darker reflection of our own.
• The City: It's not a real city in our world, but an amalgamation of many different cities. It has the skyscrapers of NYC and Chicago, the subway tunnels of London, the catacombs and sewers of Paris, and the ancient underground cisterns of Istanbul. Where is the City? Wherever you want it to be.
• The Houses: Vampire society is centered around the Houses. Think Game of Thrones or Dune and you've got it. Each House is ruled by a very powerful Lord/Lady, who controls a section of the city known as a demense. Each demense is a feeding ground, and vampires are very territorial by nature. You can't hunt on another house's territory. Conflict over territory is one of the main drivers of the game.
• The Duke: Someone has to be in charge. Again, think of GOT or Dune and you've got the general idea. The main job of the Duke is to ensure that (1) the territorial disputes don't get out of hand, (2) the mortal herds don't get too thin, and (3) the vampire population doesn't get too large. These three things tend to exist in a delicate balance--when one gets out of hand, it threatens the other two. And when all three get out of control, it becomes an existential threat.

Ok, but what do the players do?

• Dungeoncrawls: It's an OSR game, so killing monsters and taking their stuff is a thing. You can probably guess from the paragraph above what the "dungeons" are going to be. The "monsters" will usually be other vampires (or their minions) and "stuff" will be a little different than a classic D&D game. But the spirit is the same.
• Politics: Another component of the game deals with diplomatic relations between the houses. Making and breaking deals, backstabbing, treachery, seduction, assassination, etc. Every Lord curries favor with the Duke to gain an advantage over his rivals, while scheming on how to kill him and take his place.
• Mystery: No one knows who the first vampire was, or why vampires were created in the first place. There are several theories, which over the centuries have become mystery cults and in some cases, religions. But any concrete evidence has been lost to the sands of time. Finding lost texts and ancient artifacts provides power, both in the abstract and literal sense.

So that's basically where I'm at. It's not much, but let me know what you think.

This sounds awesome to me? Are you going to release this? I need to run/play this now!

I had an interesting proposition...

What if you ran a long-term Classic WoD chronicle that starts off where the franchise began, with the default setting presented in Vampire: The Masquerade's first edition and maybe also the 1st Edition version of Chicago By Night...and then from there, diverge in a completely and entirely different direction on the setting and metaplot.

Instead of following the old canon and metaplot, the ST instead creates a deliberate and very explicit counter-canon and counter-metaplot. Events would happen differently and the other splats would appear differently and others might not appear at all, to say nothing of the possible fan splats the ST could include (Zombie, Immortal, Senshi, or some of the stuff that was on B.J. Zanzibar's old site)

Quote from: Aglondir;1129641I've been thinking about a project lately which is exactly that (save the humanity part.) It's basically the campaign I wanted to run decades ago, but my group could never leave behind the White Wolf elements, and I got tired of pounding my head against a wall. But I've always wanted to necro it, but with an entirely different system to make sure the White Wolf baggage doesn't get in the way.  I'm looking at using a modified B/X core, much like Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine Publishing) does for his games. He's hands-down the king of using the B/X chassis for modern genres, if not one of the best OSR publishers around, and if I can manage to produce something with 1/10th of that quality I will consider it a success. The goal is not to create a "Vampire: the Masquerade with the serial numbers filed off" but to riff off the World of Darkness and a few other influences. If V:TM is an elaborately decorated, multi-layered wedding cake, this project is more like a stack of pancakes.


What's Out

• This won't be an urban fantasy game, but a vampire game. Mainly because designing all of those splats is too much work. My goal is to limit the focus on one thing. If it works, I can expand into different areas in subsequent products.
• No White Wolf lingo. I'm going to assume it's all under copyright, so you won't find Camirilla, Sabbat, Brujah, Nosferatu, Embrace, Kindred, Diablerie, Rotshreck, etc.
  
• Not too many of the V:TM concepts will survive. Some are unavoidable, for example, there's got to be a way to create new vampires. But I'm not going call it the Embrace. And there will be diablerie, but I need a new word for it.
  
• There are no vampire clans. But like any B/X game, there are classes, which are a mix of what you do and what you are. But these will not resemble the WW clans.
• There's no war between the badass violent sect and the corrupt but cultured sect, nor a war between the vampires and the werewolves, nor a war between the ruling class and the anarchists.
• There's no metaplot. There are setting elements, but they provide a structure, not a straight-jacket. The game is about your campaign and your players, not some grandiose preordained story.
• The game is not about "personal horror" or "losing your humanity" or wallowing in guilt and angst about the monster you've become. It is unabashedly what some critics call "superheroes with fangs." Because let's be honest: living forever and getting super powers is fucking awesome.

What's In

• System-wise, it will be a modified B/X chassis, with classes, levels, hit points, (ascending) armor class, saving throws, and a skill system with about 30 skills.
• The skills will blur the line between the mundane and the supernatural. For example, climb doesn't mean you climb a wall with hand holds and gear. it means you climb up a sheer vertical surface like a spider. Intimidate doesn't mean you threaten a guy with a gun and he backs down, it means he runs away in terror.
• Magic will be much like you're used to. Some spells will be familiar, while others will be new. Clerical magic is slightly different. Instead of spells, you learn Secrets and Rituals. Since all vampires can self-heal, the cleric isn't a heal-bot, but focuses on defense, information, and esoteric vampire lore.

So, what's the setting like?

• The World: The world is violent and corrupt. I love the the general feel of the WOD, where the game world is a darker reflection of our own.
• The City: It's not a real city in our world, but an amalgamation of many different cities. It has the skyscrapers of NYC and Chicago, the subway tunnels of London, the catacombs and sewers of Paris, and the ancient underground cisterns of Istanbul. Where is the City? Wherever you want it to be.
• The Houses: Vampire society is centered around the Houses. Think Game of Thrones or Dune and you've got it. Each House is ruled by a very powerful Lord/Lady, who controls a section of the city known as a demense. Each demense is a feeding ground, and vampires are very territorial by nature. You can't hunt on another house's territory. Conflict over territory is one of the main drivers of the game.
• The Duke: Someone has to be in charge. Again, think of GOT or Dune and you've got the general idea. The main job of the Duke is to ensure that (1) the territorial disputes don't get out of hand, (2) the mortal herds don't get too thin, and (3) the vampire population doesn't get too large. These three things tend to exist in a delicate balance--when one gets out of hand, it threatens the other two. And when all three get out of control, it becomes an existential threat.

Ok, but what do the players do?

• Dungeoncrawls: It's an OSR game, so killing monsters and taking their stuff is a thing. You can probably guess from the paragraph above what the "dungeons" are going to be. The "monsters" will usually be other vampires (or their minions) and "stuff" will be a little different than a classic D&D game. But the spirit is the same.
• Politics: Another component of the game deals with diplomatic relations between the houses. Making and breaking deals, backstabbing, treachery, seduction, assassination, etc. Every Lord curries favor with the Duke to gain an advantage over his rivals, while scheming on how to kill him and take his place.
• Mystery: No one knows who the first vampire was, or why vampires were created in the first place. There are several theories, which over the centuries have become mystery cults and in some cases, religions. But any concrete evidence has been lost to the sands of time. Finding lost texts and ancient artifacts provides power, both in the abstract and literal sense.

So that's basically where I'm at. It's not much, but let me know what you think.

Shut up and take my money.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1130277I had an interesting proposition...

What if you ran a long-term Classic WoD chronicle that starts off where the franchise began, with the default setting presented in Vampire: The Masquerade's first edition and maybe also the 1st Edition version of Chicago By Night...and then from there, diverge in a completely and entirely different direction on the setting and metaplot.

Instead of following the old canon and metaplot, the ST instead creates a deliberate and very explicit counter-canon and counter-metaplot. Events would happen differently and the other splats would appear differently and others might not appear at all, to say nothing of the possible fan splats the ST could include (Zombie, Immortal, Senshi, or some of the stuff that was on B.J. Zanzibar's old site)

Sam, I couldn't disagree with you more. I don't like the World of Darkness setting. Individual pieces, probably, but not the whole.

It's going to take me years to get my urban fantasy multiverse off the ground. I think I'll start by writing prose fiction to establish how characters interact with the setting. I'll probably invent some POV character who is basically Penny Dreadful with a TARDIS, thus explaining how she can visit various worlds a la Sliders.

Actually the more I work on my Adventures of the Weird the less World of Darkness it feels.  It feels more like dark super hero game with the setting being more inline with Conan the Barbarian meets TARG while being the modern day.  I think I failed in making a nWoD killer and went off to its own path to something new.

Quote from: daddystabz;1130273This sounds awesome to me? Are you going to release this? I need to run/play this now!

Thanks! In terms of progress, I'm still juggling some concepts. I'll post updates as they trickle in.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1130535Actually the more I work on my Adventures of the Weird the less World of Darkness it feels.  It feels more like dark super hero game with the setting being more inline with Conan the Barbarian meets TARG while being the modern day.  I think I failed in making a nWoD killer and went off to its own path to something new.

Your description sounds like what Monte Cook tried to do with his take on WoD some years ago. Maybe take a look for ideas? It shouldnt be hard to find these days.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1130535Actually the more I work on my Adventures of the Weird the less World of Darkness it feels.  It feels more like dark super hero game with the setting being more inline with Conan the Barbarian meets TARG while being the modern day.  I think I failed in making a nWoD killer and went off to its own path to something new.

WoD/CoD doesn't seem like its ever going to be killed by any single competitor. More likely they're just going to decline as competitors keep popping up. WoD/CoD is already hanging by a thread since they were purchased by a game publisher in order to be mined for video games. Paradox may eventually discard Onyx because of creative differences. The changes to the setting and rules that Paradox wants for their video games don't match what fans of the tabletop seem to want. Since the video games will be far more popular, then the tabletop will get the boot.

As much as I might want to kill WoD/CoD, I know that's a pipe dream and I'm more interested in creating a setting that I enjoy (and that others might deign to enjoy if they aren't WW fanboys). At this point in time, I feel that I might be happier writing prose about scenarios that I enjoy rather than tormenting myself by trying to engage with toxic tabletop communities. Online roleplaying seems to be way more popular nowadays than tabletop. Has anyone ever written an RPG setting specifically for chats?

Anyway, here are a few ideas for possible settings because I feel like being constructive:

The Masquerade: The world resembles contemporary Earth, but there is a secret paranormal underground. (e.g. the X of Darkness games)

The Unmasked World: Previously identical to The Masquerade setting, this world has revealed the paranormal to the muggle public. (e.g. the works written by Patricia Briggs, Blades in the Dark)

The Magic Comes Back: The paranormal creatures left Earth sometime during the Renaissance or Age of Reason. In the contemporary period, they are slowly returning from their extraterrestrial and extraplanar realms. (e.g. the Dark-Matter game)

Ancient Conspiracy: A variant of The Masquerade world, this setting is full of ancient conspiracies that are constantly operating at cross-purposes. The pileup prevents any single conspiracy from effectively ruling the world. (e.g. the Nephilim game)

Weirdness Magnet: the party lives in a town that attracts paranormal activity to a much greater degree than the rest of the world. (e.g. Buffy, Spooksville, Gravity Falls)

The Dark City: The city that the party lives in is actually an artificial simulation (e.g. Dark City, The Matrix)