(Forking the thread on the topic of 3E D&D design origins).


On the 5' step rule, an early example of this is in the 1E DragonQuest rpg rulebooks published by wargame publisher SPI in 1980.  (TSR published later editions of DragonQuest).


Specifically section 13.2 on page 17 of the "Character Generation, Combat" book:

"A character may Shift into up to 2 contiguous hexes by expending 3 Action Points to enter each hex.

Shifting is a special type of movement whereby a character may move into hexes through hexsides other than his Front Hexsides.  A character implementing a Shift Action may never increase the distance (in hexes) between himself and a Hostile character whose Strike Zone he occupies at any time during the Pulse.  A character implementing a Shift need not cease movement upon entering the Strike Zone of an adjacent hostile character."

On the 5' steps - TSR owned later editions of Dragonquest so its quite possible.
Finding the reference is actually going to be problematic, but Abyssal Maw has previously noted he did an interview of Jonathan Tweet where Tweet admitted some elements of Ars Magica were inspired by DragonQuest (specifically, something to do with excessive spell failure percentages influenced Ars Magica's design ?). That would indicate that Tweet certainly knew of DragonQuest, at least.

I'd suspect you're right ggroy, and that the first thing resembling an AoO is probably the free attack when a defender withdraws seen in 1E (by 3.5, appearance of withdraw as an action meant this no longer happened, funnily enough).

While I think of it, the feat system in general would seem to be a renaming and revamping of the Weapon Proficiency system, since by the end of 2E Weapon Proficiencies could be used for a range of different things - including of course Weapon Specialization but also Two Weapon fighting style and Ambidexterity (Complete Fighter), and Blind-Fight (originally a non weapon proficiency, plus Endurance was originally a non-weapon proficiency as well).

On original of some other specific feats:
-Abyssal Maw, in another post, noted that 'Cleave' in 3E is probably a descendant of the old sweeping rule,  where fighters may make attacks equal to their level against foes with 1-1 HD or lower.

-Point blank shot (which went on to be 'prime shot' in 4E) is probably descended from old editions bow & crossbow specialization rules, which added a 'point blank' range category.

-Tweet invented Power Attack: there was a thread on the wizards' boards during 4E prerelease when he lamented doing so because of the complex math involved for the poor barbarians...

Where did prestige classes come from?

(ie. Besides the bard in 1E AD&D).

Wargames since the dawn of time have used zones of control and I can remember several that allowed you to expend additional movement points to move through them without stopping.  It's a pretty old concept.

The 3E D&D initiative mechanic has some precedents in earlier editions.

From page 61 of the player's book in the Mentzer basic D&D red box set:


Paired Combat

When you begin a battle, both sides roll for initiative.  This one roll has applied to everyone on each side.

Your DM may choose, for small battles, to determine initiative for each monster or character instead of the whole group.  When this is done, each player rolls for initiative, adjusting the roll by Dexterity bonuses or penalties as given on the following table.  The DM will roll for each monster involved in actual combat, adjusting the roll if the monster is very slow or very fast.  Most monsters have no adjustment to Paired Combat.  One other initiative roll may be needed for other monsters not in hand-to-hand combat, if any, compared to a similar roll for characters not engaged in battle.

Dexterity Adjustment To Initiative

(Dexterity Score ---> Initiative Adjustment)

3 ---> -2
4-5 ---> -1
6-8 ---> -1
9-12 ---> No Adjustment
13-15 ---> +1
16-17 ---> +1
18 ---> +2

The combat mechanics in the first edition of DragonQuest, reads like they were written by a hex-n-chit wargame designer.

Quote from: ggroy;445889Where did prestige classes come from?

(ie. Besides the bard in 1E AD&D).

Both the Bard and Thief-Acrobat in 1E are sort of like PrCs, but Tweet also mentions the concept here as being from RuneQuest.
The concept is sort of  similar to WHFR's career structure too, but that seems to be 'parallel evolution'.

http://www.jonathantweet.com/jotgameppaward.html#RuneQuest

Quote from: ggroy;445889Where did prestige classes come from?

(ie. Besides the bard in 1E AD&D).

The concept may also have roots in the Wizardry computer game series, where you could advance your characters from the basic four classes (Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Wizard) to more advanced ones like Bishop, Lord, Ranger, Samurai and the ultimate killing machine, the Ninja (which required 17s in all ability scores - yikes!). These classes combined various class abilities (so a Samurai could fight and also cast Wizard spells), and had their own special powers - e.g. Bishops could identify magic items, and Ninjae could just kill people with critical hits.

Adding link to the Purple Worm 2nd edition rules library, if anyone particularly wants to search for the 3e precursor rules hidden amidst the 2e rules. Or just likes 2e.

http://www.purpleworm.org/Library/Rules/

e.g. behold the Concentration Non-Weapon Proficiency...

Quote from: Spells & MagicConcentration: A character with this talent has rigorously trained himself to ignore distractions of all kinds, deadening his mind to pain or sensation. This allows a wizard to ignore annoyances or disturbances that might otherwise interfere with the casting of a spell. In order to use this ability, the player must state that his character is concentrating when he begins to cast a spell. If the character is struck by an attack that causes 2 or less points of damage, he is permitted to attempt a proficiency check to ignore the distraction and continue to cast his spell (unless, of course, the damage is enough to render him unconscious.) The wizard can try to ignore grappling or restraining attacks that cause no damage but suffers a –4 penalty to his check. Spells that incapacitate without damaging, such as hold person or command, still interrupt the caster if he fails his saving throw.

A character using this ability must focus on the casting of his spell to the exclusion of all other activity, even direct attacks. Any Dexterity adjustment to his Armor Class is lost, and in addition flank or side attacks are treated as rear attacks, with a +2 bonus to hit instead of a +1.

Edit: unfortunately looks like the purple worm library has now been taken down.

Is the plan now to try to claim that not a single thing in 3e could possibly have been an original thought in Tweet & Cook's heads?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;446355Is the plan now to try to claim that not a single thing in 3e could possibly have been an original thought in Tweet & Cook's heads?

RPGPundit

How about the "stimulus package" for high-level spell-casters? Who ordered that, apart from Monte?

(Yes, I know that 2e had already started down that road.)

Hold on a second.

Who designed Ars Magica?

Quote from: Phillip;446394Hold on a second.

Who designed Ars Magica?

J. Tweet and M. Rein*Hagen.

Quote from: RPGPundit;446355Is the plan now to try to claim that not a single thing in 3e could possibly have been an original thought in Tweet & Cook's heads?

RPGPundit

Yes, the current theory is that 3.0 was designed by escapees from the Island of Misfit Toys.

Quote from: Melan;445958The concept may also have roots in the Wizardry computer game series, where you could advance your characters from the basic four classes (Fighter, Cleric, Thief and Wizard) to more advanced ones like Bishop, Lord, Ranger, Samurai and the ultimate killing machine, the Ninja (which required 17s in all ability scores - yikes!). These classes combined various class abilities (so a Samurai could fight and also cast Wizard spells), and had their own special powers - e.g. Bishops could identify magic items, and Ninjae could just kill people with critical hits.

OMG 3e is a VIDEO GAME!11!!