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Author Topic: Opa's Shadowrun Breakdown  (Read 8412 times)

Omega

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Opa's Shadowrun Breakdown
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2016, 07:11:21 AM »
Quote from: Spike;908734
Its gotta be better than Dolls.

:shudder:


I... dont... know... about... that...


Kyle Aaron

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Opa's Shadowrun Breakdown
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2016, 07:23:25 AM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;908693
No RPG ever, has ever done anything in Real Time.  

Really?
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Opaopajr

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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2016, 09:14:33 AM »
OK, let's clarify what I mean by Real Time. It's just the opposite of Game Time, that's all. I am not expecting a Concurrent Resolution Speed (amazing if it could happen; give me time to check out your links, Kyle).

I am just expecting something within the sane (yes, subjective. deal with it, bitches.) spectrum. As in, "O/AD&D could resolve this shit with 5 players and 10 monsters in a football field size campus in under 5 minutes, if that. What's your damage that you can't?"

I'm just tired of the crunch excuses as I get older.
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
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Opaopajr

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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2016, 09:22:15 AM »
Ok, many of you are dancing around it and pointing to other systems besides CP 2020 for speed...

So let's get it out there in the open: how fucking slow and grindy is it? Delineate please, with examples. How fast to 5-(hu)man S.W.A.T. team a 5 room supermarket-sized compound with 10 bad guys (7 mooks) and grab the MacGuffin?

(PS: I think that movie damaged my servos, I'm impatient and more vulgar than usual on fora. Nemesis is like Viagra to reconnect to your inner 14 year old boy. I must be suffering withdrawals...)
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

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Opa's Shadowrun Breakdown
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2016, 09:34:24 AM »
Quote from: Spike;908725
I bowed out of the Shadowrun train during the big embezzlement scandal at Catalyst late(ish) in the 4E cycle.  I glanced at the 5E book and decided it wasn't different enough to waste money on.

Sounds like I made an excellent choice.  

Of course, I swear by CP2020... its one of a handful of games that I can run entirely without books. Sure, books are nice for knowing what all those bits of chrome actually (well, I actually could reproduce most of the core cybernetics from memory...), as well as the slightly more complex than useful gun stats (ditto... Ok, only the important bits, like Damage. And I can wing the rest!).

My advice for jumping into CP2020 is to bypass the Roles and the attendant Special Skills.  Use the Roles as guidelines on skill sets, rather than actual classes. Of course, this monkeys a bit with starting cash (big whoop)... and unless you REALLY need to include a PC hacker, pass all hacking/netrunning/decking to an NPC who does their mojo at the speed of plot, off screen.

Cyberpunk also has some sort of world record for most high quality supplements ever!  Every god damn book they released is a fucking gold mine, usually presenting some part of the game in an entirely new light, almost making mini-RPGs out of the core rules.

This is good, very good. I want to pick your brain more. I also know someone with all the books, so perhaps I can squeeze some reading time in and get a better sense of it.

I love Star Wars WEG and the attendant free wheeling madness and fun. But sometimes I want to watch something more gritty for players. And then there's a limit where higher xp SW WEG seems to fly beyond what most of cyberpunk gonzo would accept into nigh-teflon heroics.

How would you compare CP2020 vs. d6, if I punched them in the feels?
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Armchair Gamer

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Opa's Shadowrun Breakdown
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2016, 11:08:38 AM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;908724
I already heard the Savage Worlds issues with repeated shaken, (fixed yet?)


   Possibly, depending on what your issues were. About a year or so ago, they changed the rules so that a success, rather than a raise, is enough to get you an action after you've been Shaken.

daniel_ream

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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2016, 11:39:09 AM »
I want to point out that literary cyberpunk, cinematic cyberpunk, and RPG cyberpunk are all very different beasts with different genre tropes.  "Gunporn" is largely nonexistent in literary cyberpunk.  For that matter, so is most cyberware.  Defining your expectations is vital.  I'd argue the best game for literary cyberpunk is hands down Stolze's A Dirty World, because most literary cyberpunk is just noir in a near-future setting.
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Baron Opal

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Opa's Shadowrun Breakdown
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2016, 05:14:59 PM »
I found combat in CP2020 to take relatively little time, particularly when compared to Shadowrun 2e.

Now, when someone is decked out in full combat armor, or is a corp with orbital crystal cyberwear, it's going to take some time since armor subtracts from damage. But two guys in leather armored jackets and 0.38s going up against a dude with a shotgun is going to be a quick fight, one way or the other.

As far as magic goes, there was a supplement by a third part that covered that- Night's Edge. Between that and High Orbit (?) for the space / orbital platform stuff, I had pretty much what I needed.

DavetheLost

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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2016, 09:13:04 PM »
Fun RPG trivia fact: "Night's Edge" was actually named as a play on the name of the old soap opera "The Edge of Night". I was given playtest notes to look at and they mentioned that they needed a title.

Omega

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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2016, 09:41:03 PM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;908772

So let's get it out there in the open: how fucking slow and grindy is it? Delineate please, with examples. How fast to 5-(hu)man S.W.A.T. team a 5 room supermarket-sized compound with 10 bad guys (7 mooks) and grab the MacGuffin?


5e as noted in other threads can warp along pretty fast.

But hands down fastest is probably Albedo. Followed by Boot Hill.

For a straight up Cyberpunk RPG? Not sure really. SR combat can go fast. But even with a computer handling everything we had one Renrarku run take quite a while. But that was fully armed PCs and opponents at a top end mission. I am totally unfamilliar with CP2020's combat system. How fast would you say 5 PCs can work through 10 NPCs in say 2 groups of 5?

Opaopajr

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« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2016, 11:20:47 PM »
Quote from: daniel_ream;908780
I want to point out that literary cyberpunk, cinematic cyberpunk, and RPG cyberpunk are all very different beasts with different genre tropes.  "Gunporn" is largely nonexistent in literary cyberpunk.  For that matter, so is most cyberware.  Defining your expectations is vital.  I'd argue the best game for literary cyberpunk is hands down Stolze's A Dirty World, because most literary cyberpunk is just noir in a near-future setting.

That's actually good to know. Dunno if I would feel the need to hunt down Stolze's A Dirty World when I could just port it over CoC/BRPs to do the noir heavy lifting. Not currently in a noir mood, but if I was interested in genre fidelity, that knowledge helps.

What does A Dirty World game offer that makes it worth getting if I wanna get my Blade Runner on?

Additional question, how "genre flexible" (pansexual? :p) is CP2020 if I wanna slip around between the genres?

Shadowrun is more campaign focused (predominantly mission-based), but somewhat lenient in genre, as there's locations in setting where I can really change hook focus and atmosphere.

But I would kinda like something both "genre flexible" and "campaign flexible." I basically want a quick running, yet not ultra-light, go-to system for when the 'near future' bug bites me and gives me hives of inspiration. Like an espresso shot with which I may dress up or down as it suits me, a light to med-light toolbox if you will.
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Omega

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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2016, 11:35:00 PM »
Quote from: daniel_ream;908780
I want to point out that literary cyberpunk, cinematic cyberpunk, and RPG cyberpunk are all very different beasts with different genre tropes.  "Gunporn" is largely nonexistent in literary cyberpunk.  For that matter, so is most cyberware.  Defining your expectations is vital.  I'd argue the best game for literary cyberpunk is hands down Stolze's A Dirty World, because most literary cyberpunk is just noir in a near-future setting.

Good point.

Alot of Literary Cyperpunk tends to the investigative, Cinematic tends to the shootouts and explosions, while RPG CP tends to stealth and sneaking as it were. Trying to not get noticed while you do whatever.  But handles everything really.

JongWK

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« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2016, 12:09:55 AM »
Quote from: Spike;908725
I bowed out of the Shadowrun train during the big embezzlement scandal at Catalyst late(ish) in the 4E cycle.  


Same here. If I ever want to run again a Shadowrun campaign, there's SR2, SR3 and even SR4. The pre-scandal books are more than enough.
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Spike

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« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2016, 04:07:15 AM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;908774
This is good, very good. I want to pick your brain more. I also know someone with all the books, so perhaps I can squeeze some reading time in and get a better sense of it.

I love Star Wars WEG and the attendant free wheeling madness and fun. But sometimes I want to watch something more gritty for players. And then there's a limit where higher xp SW WEG seems to fly beyond what most of cyberpunk gonzo would accept into nigh-teflon heroics.

How would you compare CP2020 vs. d6, if I punched them in the feels?


Its a lot easier to check your math in Cyberpunk than d6? I dunno, man> the last time I played D6 starwars we had some NPC from the books tossing 14+ dice at us to force us on the GM's railroad plot, so I may be a bit biased.  

From what I recall of d6 systems, its pretty easy to be tough and take a few hits 'for the team'. Cyberpunk don't play that. As a GM I found it difficult not to wipe the party out with two bit thugs.   The key is to go light on the cool toys. Don't pack your mooks with assault rifles unless the players are running around in Metal Gear (TM!).  Encourage the players to actually plan their fights, rather than dropping random wandering combat on them.    One head hit (10% of shots) from a medium pistol (9mm basically) will put almost any character not wearing a helmet into lethal damage every time.  That's a 'massive' 2d6+1 damage roll. An assault rifle does 7d6, and it only goes up from there.  

So, wadda ya wanna know?
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IskandarKebab

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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2016, 05:30:58 AM »
For cyberpunk I tend to advocate using homebrew fluff over a savage worlds rules setting. The problem with the established cyberpunk RPGs, in my view, is that they are too tied to mirrorshades era cyberpunk. The setting is compelling, but at times I feel like I'm walking through a history book of the future. The fundamental pillars of mirrorshades just aren't tangible anymore for most people born in the 1990's. The Zaibatsu turned out to be horribly inefficient ways of running companies. The net went from a wild west into a much more corporatized and controlled tool for enhancing reality rather than replacing it with a cyberworld. Japan kind of collapsed. The wild conspiracy era of the 1990's made sense when we didn't actually have major threats to worry about. Cyborg implants are coming around, and shockingly they don't really mess with your soul.

In return, I actually feel like the modern world offers a lot more potential for cyberpunk. As the economy becomes more data and tech driven, industrial espionage is going to become increasingly important. Also, data security is becoming harder every year. It makes sense for companies to turned to closed off intranets. Right there, you have a reason for people to be breaking into places. Heck, the massive Target hack happened because someone sniffed out a backdoor through a small time ventilation company. There's a ton of threads you can pick up on and turn to 11 to create a relatable cyberpunk world. You still need to create an "adventuring paradigm," but that can be solved through going full noir and focusing entirely on planning, legwork and avoiding combat for the most part. The other option, (what I do) is have a situation where the government is encouraging ruthless competition, so as long as no bystanders get caught in the crossfire, they don't care what corps do to each other.

This is especially true for campaigns set in Africa or the Middle East these days. The Democratic Republic of the Congo is basically cyberpunk come to life. Companies fighting over territory, coopted governments, growing importance of tech. I'm currently running a campaign centered around Kinshasa and it's really easy to have plausible answers why the police don't care if you and a corp's security team are getting into firefights. Industrial espionage makes a ton of sense when billions of dollars in minerals are on the line. Nairobi, and it's booming tech center, also offers a lot of rich potential. Companies have already turned to the African continent to do testing they otherwise wouldn't be able to do. It doesn't stretch plausibility to think that this could turn into a booming biotech industry, with all the ruthless competition that could follow.

I can post my setting if people are interested, and I know it's not the best answer as OP was looking for a system to plug into, but for young'uns like me, there's a lot more potential for relatable cyberpunk settings in the real world, vs the 1980's view of how things would be.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 05:38:20 AM by IskandarKebab »
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