Only players roll. Why?

dragoner · July 30, 2014, 07:15:32 PM

Quote from: Ladybird;773662I think you're taking "only players roll" to an extreme; while all the hard mechanics are player-facing, the GM can still do whatever the hell they want on their side of the table. The game won't provide any mechanical support for it, but you're the GM, interpret the numbers as you will.

I think you'd have to go a long way to find someone so hardline ONLY PLAYERS EVER ROLL EVER that they begrudged a Dungeon World GM rolling on a random encounter table, or rolling dice to help with NPC decisions, for example.

Could be, just going with what I hear.

Ladybird · July 30, 2014, 07:24:49 PM

Quote from: dragoner;773664Could be, just going with what I hear.

When I ran Dungeon World, I still rolled damage for the monsters, because it felt right, and because I like rolling dice. I know, shock horror.

As a player, I also wouldn't think of the GM deciding that the police have taken an interest in the PC's as an arbitrary thing, particularly if the PC's have done something worthy of police attention. Actions have consequences, after all. If the GM later turned around and said "the police went after you because you were seen carrying a gun on the street", yeah, of course they would. Makes sense.

dragoner · July 30, 2014, 07:31:57 PM

Quote from: Ladybird;773669As a player, I also wouldn't think of the GM deciding that the police have taken an interest in the PC's as an arbitrary thing, particularly if the PC's have done something worthy of police attention. Actions have consequences, after all. If the GM later turned around and said "the police went after you because you were seen carrying a gun on the street", yeah, of course they would. Makes sense.

Something ostentatious, yes, like displaying firearms. But if it is undercover security, or technology like cameras or drones, they might not notice it. But like I said, I like randomness, at least to give the players a chance in that scenario. Sometimes I have pulled punches, and still they have hanged themselves, so it goes.

I still like the thrill of rolling dice too, don't get me wrong.

Necrozius · July 30, 2014, 07:33:47 PM

Quote from: Ladybird;773662I think you'd have to go a long way to find someone so hardline ONLY PLAYERS EVER ROLL EVER that they begrudged a Dungeon World GM rolling on a random encounter table, or rolling dice to help with NPC decisions, for example.

Oh yeah, for the record, I still roll on random tables while GMing Dungeon World. Frankly, that's probably the ONLY dice rolling that I want to do these days as a GM because it's my own little private game of making shit up on the fly and trying to make things interesting.

I actually have several pdfs of things that I always go back to (the Dungeon Alphabet, Dungeon Dozen articles, Vornheim etc...). So much fun.

Bren · July 30, 2014, 07:46:18 PM

Quote from: Will;773663And if the GM really really likes to roll dice, heck, the GM could do ALL the rolling, instead.

I recall our D&D group talked about having the GM do all the rolling back in the mid 1970s to increase the fog of war from a player perspective. I know I've read comments from people who played in groups where the DM did most if not all of the rolling.

Armchair Gamer · July 30, 2014, 07:49:26 PM

Quote from: Bren;773680I recall our D&D group talked about having the GM do all the rolling back in the mid 1970s to increase the fog of war from a player perspective. I know I've read comments from people who played in groups where the DM did most if not all of the rolling.

That reminds me that in "The Game Wizards" in DRAGON #162, one of Bruce Nesmith's techniques for running RAVENLOFT was to allow players to roll attack and damage, and he rolled everything else. This allowed for greater suspense and the inclusion of unknown modifiers, so it may not be relevant in games where the necessary roll is set by the DM instead of the system.

Skywalker · July 30, 2014, 07:51:32 PM

Quote from: dragoner;773649Up thread, someone mentioned removing the GM rolling in Shadowrun or Exalted, because they are dice heavy. Which could be totally true, but that I wouldn't know not having played them.

Star Wars WEG is another example where you replace dice rolling with static values without tipping the balance of the math much. Mini-Six does this with the resistance (dodge and resist damage) rolls, but you could equally apply the same concept to all GM rolls and simply have players roll both dice in combat.

dragoner · July 31, 2014, 01:21:29 AM

Quote from: Skywalker;773684Star Wars WEG is another example where you replace dice rolling with static values without tipping the balance of the math much. Mini-Six does this with the resistance (dodge and resist damage) rolls, but you could equally apply the same concept to all GM rolls and simply have players roll both dice in combat.

It sounds like you are doing something right if it is working for you.

Bill · July 31, 2014, 10:39:29 AM

Quote from: Necrozius;773567GM:" A Type 5 demon suddenly appears right next to you and is about to slice you up with six weapons and a tail. What do you do?"

Player: "Holy FUCK! I try to get the hell out of the way by doing a duck and roll!"

GM: "Sounds like you're using the move: Defy Danger. Roll Dex."

Player rolls and fails.

GM: "Ha ha you're cut up by multiple blades and stabbed in the gut by a tail. Roll 2d6+10 damage with Piercing 2."

Player rolls damage and weeps over his/her character's diced up corpse.

Sounds fine to me.

Bill · July 31, 2014, 10:40:54 AM

Quote from: Ladybird;773571Why would the GM declare the demon's intent? The character has no way of knowing that information. All the character knows is demon appeared, blades occurred. It's up to the player / character to parse that and decide what to do next. Maybe they ask the demon what it thinks it's doing! Then they might get to know it's intent. Or not.

And who did the PC piss off that demons start appearing to attack them, anyway?

Also, yes, Unisystem Cinematic uses only-players-roll.

Poor choice of words on my part. I should have said "Declares what the character perceives; a multiarmed demon trying to murder them!"

3rik · July 31, 2014, 12:12:22 PM

Quote from: Ladybird;773571(...) Also, yes, Unisystem Cinematic uses only-players-roll.

Only for minor/mook NPCs, though. Their stats represent average die roll results.

Noclue · July 31, 2014, 09:02:48 PM

Quote from: JeremyR;773048I think there is a certain segment of gamers who feel that the DM will conspire against them if the DM rolls.

Maybe, except that I've never heard that expressed as a reason for Player only rolls, either by people who play that way or the games themselves. And looking at games that work this way, such as Apocalypse World, Dungeon World and Numenera, there seems to be a large degree of trust placed on GM authority and fairness and not very much emphasis on constraining the GM's power.