Because of course only non-racists think that when you talk/think/use intelligence as an attribute you do so because non-whites aren't as smart.

And the ride never ends. You're all fascist pigs, deal with it.

https://goatsongrpg.wordpress.com/2019/08/16/game-design-against-fascism-generalized-intelligence/

what?

that half way reminds me of when one of the guys in my group was trying to sell us on Earthdawn, which replaced the Intelligence attribute with Perception.  He said that the game makes no assumptions about the character's intelligence.

he was considerably less pleased when during play (with him as GM) after he said that my character wasn't smart enough to outsmart a dragon we were dealing with, I pointed out his earlier logic, and followed up with that my character may not be able to out smart a dragon, but I can outsmart him dead drunk and half asleep (which the other players backed me up on).

Quote from: From articleA look at the history of phrenology shows a similar trend, the idea that the shape of someone's skull could reveal their moral character is the same sort of understanding that leads to people believing that a biased test reveals objective truths.

Even the least competent phrenologist would discover the author's head to be pin-shaped.

"media that does not wish for a fascist audience."

Whether you want an audience or not doesn't necessarily mean you won't get it. I've seen everyone from hippies to neopagan Nazis latch on to Tolkien. (The infamous Varg has recently been posting as 'Gandalf the White' on Twitter and claiming that Tolkien was Christian in name only and 'really pagan in blood and heart.')

I wonder how well people that don't believe in Iq tests do when they take Iq tests?  Probably not well.

On the other hand if you disguised an IQ test to appear in the format of one of those bar trivia quiz machines, they'd do rather well because thats the kind of knowledge extroverts nod to with approval.  So much to unpack here.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1099787https://goatsongrpg.wordpress.com/2019/08/16/game-design-against-fascism-generalized-intelligence/

That blog is a treasure trove of silly ideas. Not surprised that he's a PbtA player.

These fruitcakes should be locked up in insane asylums.

It's not only wrong, it's FACIST!

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1099806It's not only wrong, it's FACIST!

You calling me ugly, punk?!

Quote from: the articleChildren from lower income families, children of color, female children, and disabled children all perform worse on IQ tests than their more privileged counterparts.

This difference is not caused by these children being less "intelligent," it is caused by the tests being biased against these children. Indeed, the idea that there is a single intelligence that covers all levels of capability for an individual is incorrect. No person is "smarter" than another, they simply have different levels of competency in different areas. The areas that are though as representing "intelligence" are literacy, vocabulary, and mathematical skills, which are the traits tested by the IQ test.

Let's set aside that in fact females don't perform worse than males, nor the physically disabled worse than the physically able. Apart from being ignorant of the research on intelligence, the authour is confusing attributes and skills.

An attribute past childhood is fairly fixed; it can be improved with hard work, or dropped due to illness or injury or age, but it's more or less the same. This is why in my gym I have people who take 12 months to get to where someone else started on day one. We have the guy who was always encouraged into sports as a kid, who had permanent sunburn from running around outside, and the guy who faked a stomach ache to get out of PE class. Not only does on start ahead of the other, they stay ahead however much work gets done by either.

Attributes are determined by genetics and upbringing, and into adulthood can only be changed a standard deviation or two. Skills are entirely learned.

Typically, those with poor attributes developed in childhood spent time developing skills instead. The stomach ache faker was reading books. The kid who skipped class because mum was drunk again was developing the skills of looking after themselves on their own while mum slept it off, and the skill of first aid - putting mum in the recovery position so she wouldn't choke on her own vomit.

Now, it is true that certain racists use IQ performance to justify their bigotry, "blacks are dumb lolz" and so on. But this is largely a US thing. In most countries, people understand that childhood poverty and unstable households tend to lead to worse academic performance - indeed, general life performance - than childhood wealth and stable households. For example, this done in India found that,

"Children living in cities, children having physical activity more than 5 h/weeks, children with parents having a postgraduate or graduate level of education, children whose father having a professional job, and those with a higher family income were more likely to have high IQ."

All Indian, but different circumstances in their upbringing, thus different results. Which is a surprise to no-one. Most people understand that in each society, certain groups - ethnic and religious minorities, rural people, etc - will tend to be poorer and have less stable households. Most people understand that certain groups have historical disadvantage which tends to perpetuate itself, and which requires strong effort from both society and the individuals involved to overcome.

Outside the US, there is an understanding too that historical disadvantage needs action to make up for it. Like most Social Justice Warriors, the authour has a very narrow and US-centric understanding of the world.

By pretending that there is no difference, we pretend that there is no disadvantage for that group. And thus the Social Justice Warrior gets to signal their virtue without the inconvenience of having to actually do anything, like DeCaprio sailing his private yacht to a climate change conference with other celebrities. At least the Conservative Justice Warrior makes no pretence at caring.

"social justice activism is a gimmick used by the middle class to get the white working class and the nonwhite working class to spend all their time fighting each other, so that the middle class can maintain its position at the expense of both." - John Michael Greer

That said: I don't like intelligence much in game design, because it gives players an excuse to be an arsehole. They can do something stupid and then say, "oh but my character is smart so I should get away with it", or they can be dull and unimaginative and demand a roll for the DM to give them a solution to the problem. I prefer having Education (your general learning, distinct from specific knowledge skills) and Perception (how much you notice). Combining what the character notices with what they know is "intelligence", which I leave up to the player.

Yes, this disadvantages stupid players. In other news, clumsy weak people don't do well in football. Roleplaying games are games using your wits.

[cross-posted to the authour's blog, though this version has been edited]

I have no problem with a RPG skipping the INT score and letting the player roleplay the INT of their PC. Of course, there's the issue of knowledge recall which could be handled by an Education stat or Lore ability score. But now we're just dancing around not having an INT stat!

However, that author is an imbecile, and clearly any education dollars have been wasted on him so his EDU stats gonna suck as bad as his INT stat.

Also, "a fascist audience" means anyone to the right of Mao. AKA, normal people.

It is apparent that two different people can have different levels of intelligence; there are some people with a physical disability that inhibits their ability to learn and retain skills.  It is also true that IQ tests have a history of perpetuating discrimination when instead they more accurately reflect disadvantage rather than true forms of intelligence.  Someone who scored poorly on an IQ test due to unfamiliarity with a specific culture or language may end up proving they are 'genius'.  

D&D 3.x does a good job of modeling other forms of intelligence.  Social Intelligence is a different stat; most 'learning' is skill based.  Having a skill that represents that some people learn faster than others (ie, get more skills) is fine if it costs somewhere else.

I agree that Intelligence penalties can be applied unnecessarily and often don't make sense.  

It is mathematically true that you can replace all penalties with bonuses combined with no adjustment (ie, instead of +2/-2 you could have 1 stat with +4, 4 with +2, and 1 with +0).  That's unnecessarily confusing, but in our heartbreaker we opt to give a +2/+2 with no penalties; some people are 'better' at certain attributes without working as hard, but nobody 'loses points' for investing in a skill that they want.  You can play a smart orc if you like; you'll probably still be stronger than average (at least for wizards) but you can be just as smart.  We have not applied a bonus to Intelligence for any race; I can't say we never would, but we wouldn't do it lightly.

The important thing for me is that in a role-playing game, you can be anything you want to be.  Playing a character that spots the underlying patterns and solves major problems (like Sherlock Holmes) is attractive to some people, just like playing a character that is rich or handsome or powerful might be.  Letting players opt into having 'smart characters' is a good thing.  Actually using IQ or trying to map Intelligence to a specific IQ value is not.

That blog was something, something I guess we can expect to hear from someone who has not worked and lived in the real world ever.

Only fascists live in the real world!!