Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 01, 2022, 04:33:27 PM
Just want to, once again, point out the superiority of B/X D&D. Your class is "Elf" so there is no need to choose between any problematic terms.

Oh wait, I just realized that "class" has racial overtones as in "lower class". Guess that's next to go.

WOTC can't change the clones created under the OGL.  They could re-release BX or BECMI, or AD&D hardcovers themselves, via a retcon; and announce that the new cleansed updates are official offerings for anyone curious about older editions....   But they can't edit OSE, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, etc.  Clean alternatives to WOTC's maneuvers to outwit their competition, would still exist.  I'm sure they are kicking themselves, over the existing OGL legacy.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 01, 2022, 04:33:27 PM
Just want to, once again, point out the superiority of B/X D&D. Your class is "Elf" so there is no need to choose between any problematic terms.

Oh wait, I just realized that "class" has racial overtones as in "lower class". Guess that's next to go.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/one-d-d-cleric-class-and-revised-species.905009/post-24605160

Some half orcs can pass as human, some have pig-faces. That doesn't seem like they are the same mix.
would say 1/4 elves and 1/8 elves are all known as Half Elves. Genological records are untrustworthy in most fantasy worlds (except Westeros).

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 01, 2022, 07:01:35 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/one-d-d-cleric-class-and-revised-species.905009/post-24605160

If someone had to guess, where about are we on the timeline to 100% 1984?

From D&Done:
"Having an open conversation around the term "race" is both important and challenging."
Which is why we're cleansing the word "Race" from our lexicon, and shutting down anyone who, in the conversation, criticizes of our decision.

Quote from: Mishihari on December 01, 2022, 03:44:03 PM

I don't really agree.  I have to go from 1E, which is what I remember best, but there were halforcs and halfelves and no other crossbreeds, implying that the other combinations don't work.  Also no quarter elves or orcs implying that the crossbreeds are sterile, which means the parents are separate species like horses and donkeys make sterile mules.

AD&D, according to the PHB Halflings may have elven or dwarven blood. Thunder Rift has an elf-dwarf hybrid.
2e though was where they went wild. Half-gnolls, half-kobolds, half-dragons, half-dwarves, half-infernal, half-celestial, half-elemental, half-ogre, and those are just the ones I can recall. BECMI had a centaur-pegasus hybrid race.

Quote from: Brad on December 01, 2022, 08:43:52 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 01, 2022, 07:01:35 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/one-d-d-cleric-class-and-revised-species.905009/post-24605160

If someone had to guess, where about are we on the timeline to 100% 1984?

Comrade, D&DOceania has always been at war with the racesspecies of Eastasia.

Quote from: Mishihari on December 01, 2022, 03:14:39 PM
I've always thought that species was a better term than race for demihumans, the only problem being that it sounds to sciencey for a fantasy game.

On the surface, the change is reasonable. The problem is context is everything and in the context of OneDnD it has nothing to do with better terminology and everything to do with culture war crap.

And given the fight against "biological determinism" in D&D, species won't satisfy anyway.

Does that mean we get our "species" based ability modifiers back?

Quote from: Brad on December 01, 2022, 03:37:55 PM
First they fixed racism in advertising by removing a black lady from a pancake box, now they've fixed racism in roleplaying games by renaming races "species". Bravo, WotC!

Quote from: Cathode Ray on December 01, 2022, 08:58:13 PM
From D&Done:
"Having an open conversation around the term "race" is both important and challenging."
Which is why we're cleansing the word "Race" from our lexicon, and shutting down anyone who, in the conversation, criticizes of our decision.

Can't be racist if there's no races.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 01, 2022, 07:01:35 PM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 01, 2022, 04:33:27 PM
Just want to, once again, point out the superiority of B/X D&D. Your class is "Elf" so there is no need to choose between any problematic terms.

Oh wait, I just realized that "class" has racial overtones as in "lower class". Guess that's next to go.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/one-d-d-cleric-class-and-revised-species.905009/post-24605160

For fucks sake! Literally they won't be happy until every character is a grey goo. Next - 7th edition to be titled "Somethings & Somethings" so no one offended?

Most annoying thing to me is my own Thundarr the Barbarian inspired system (post-post apocalyptic mix of superscience and sorcery) used species because it did better fit the setting.

Now I don't want it to because it'll look like I'm agreeing with WotC's garbage.

So, I dunno, maybe I'll use Ancestry (even though I hate it) so it can be the ABC's of Character Creation (Ancestry, Background, Class)?

Quote from: Brad on December 01, 2022, 08:43:52 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 01, 2022, 07:01:35 PM
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/one-d-d-cleric-class-and-revised-species.905009/post-24605160

If someone had to guess, where about are we on the timeline to 100% 1984?

101%

RQ used species, but as someone above pointed out, it sounds too Sci-fi.

Marketing hype aside, it seems like a reasonable choice to me. It's something that quite a few people in their audience have been asking for for a while. If they think it'll deflect the lefty criticisms though, they're wrong. The complaint was never about fantasy races. It was about the idea that they're coded references to real-world races. Changing the name isn't going to change that.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 01, 2022, 04:33:27 PM
Just want to, once again, point out the superiority of B/X D&D. Your class is "Elf" so there is no need to choose between any problematic terms.

Oh wait, I just realized that "class" has racial overtones as in "lower class". Guess that's next to go.

Nobody questions it anymore, just because D&D has so proliferated the term, but "class" is a weird choice when you compare it to something like "profession" or "archetype". No one in the real world would say "my class is welder". I assume it's another artifact of wargaming, where you would talk about classes of ships and soldiers. (e.g. the Nimitz-Class Aircraft Carrier).

Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 01, 2022, 03:31:56 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on December 01, 2022, 03:14:39 PM
I've always thought that species was a better term than race for demihumans, the only problem being that it sounds to sciencey for a fantasy game.

Except humans, elves, dwarves, and orcs aren't separate species as they can all interbreed without issue. Race or Breed are the only accurate terms for what they are.

I thought this as well, but after the topic came up in another thread, I went and looked it up and there are a surprising number of species that actually can interbreed  with each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genetic_hybrids. Many of them have genetic problems of one kind or another, but there are more viable hybrids out there than I ever realized.

That said, I think you raise a problem with the change. By switching from the more nebulous and literary term "race" to the more scientific "species", they invite this kind of questioning. Not sure it's a great idea to make a change to your fantasy world that encourages people to debate the evolutionary genetics of its inhabitants. 

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 02, 2022, 08:10:40 AM
Most annoying thing to me is my own Thundarr the Barbarian inspired system (post-post apocalyptic mix of superscience and sorcery) used species because it did better fit the setting.

Now I don't want it to because it'll look like I'm agreeing with WotC's garbage.

So, I dunno, maybe I'll use Ancestry (even though I hate it) so it can be the ABC's of Character Creation (Ancestry, Background, Class)?

Don't let them dictate to you, even when they do something stupid that on the surface makes you look in their camp.  That's letting them make decisions for you. 

I dropped alignment in my system because it really didn't have any purpose for what I was doing (and I intend to eventually put something else where it would go).  Decision made couple of years ago, and done on its merits.