This is kind of a long and convoluted story, but this is a good time and place to share it. The video below (audio in the Hungarian, captions in English) provides a good summary of how Wizards of the Coast screwed the small publisher responsible for D&D 5e's Hungarian translation, and in turn our small but enthusiastic D&D fandom.

In short, Tuan Publishing, a local publisher of fantasy novels and games, obtained a license to publish 5e in a local translation. As other overseas properties, the deal was made through Gale Force Nine, a large international game company. Tuan, much unlike previous license holders, did a jolly good job on their translation. They put out a well-received Starter Set, and completed a translation of the core books that was not only up to license standards, but assisted and advised by a body recruited from Hungarian D&D fans as well. But the books, despite being textually approved, pre-ordered by numerous fans, and ready to print, never came out.

See, WotC and Gale Force Nine had an argument over the profits from these overseas distribution deals, and basically blackmailed each other by holding the licenses hostage, and refusing to approve them for printing. Perhaps this sort of lawfare is chump change for major international players, but it is really not chump change for a small outfit like Tuan. Still, they kept a good faith approach, and waited, along with the enthusiastic fans. What happened, though, was treachery: GF9 and WotC reached a settlement, but from this point on, simply stonewalled all communications with Tuan Publishing. Wizards of the Coast assumed responsibility for publishing D&D in four major languages (German, Italian, Spanish, and French), while not even deigning to send an official communication to the Hungarian licensee. And so it continues, with everything left hanging. The translation, created with much care and effort, is hanging in legal limbo due to a petty legal squabble between warring publishing giants. You can get the details from the video below (yes, Kildar really does speak that fast; it is his secret superpower).



I do not usually comment on new D&D: it is a fine game I do not really care about, and I have made peace with this situation. This, however, is scummy because it harms honest dealers and enthusiastic RPG fans. Shame on Wizards of the Coast and shame on Gale Force Nine for this charade, and for mistreating a Hungarian game company and Hungarian gamers. For a company that bloviates all day every day about doing the right thing, they sure don't mind fucking over the little guy when it is convenient for them. You know, when it is not a matter of virtue signalling about adventuring wheelchairs or hashtag politics, but following a business contract and serving a fan base, even if it is not your main bread and butter.

This is, naturally, par for course for the rainbow pony brigade. And obviously, them being a large company and Tuan being a small one in a small country, they can get away with it.

And still. Is this really a company you want to give your dollars to? Is this a publisher you can trust? Or, if by accident you are a small RPG publisher in another country reading this, who had thought of dealing with these guys: can you afford being next? Right.

Food for thought.

Quote from: Melan on April 23, 2022, 04:52:02 PM
This is kind of a long and convoluted story, but this is a good time and place to share it. The video below (audio in the Hungarian, captions in English) provides a good summary of how Wizards of the Coast screwed the small publisher responsible for D&D 5e's Hungarian translation, and in turn our small but enthusiastic D&D fandom.

In short, Tuan Publishing, a local publisher of fantasy novels and games, obtained a license to publish 5e in a local translation. As other overseas properties, the deal was made through Gale Force Nine, a large international game company. Tuan, much unlike previous license holders, did a jolly good job on their translation. They put out a well-received Starter Set, and completed a translation of the core books that was not only up to license standards, but assisted and advised by a body recruited from Hungarian D&D fans as well. But the books, despite being textually approved, pre-ordered by numerous fans, and ready to print, never came out.

See, WotC and Gale Force Nine had an argument over the profits from these overseas distribution deals, and basically blackmailed each other by holding the licenses hostage, and refusing to approve them for printing. Perhaps this sort of lawfare is chump change for major international players, but it is really not chump change for a small outfit like Tuan. Still, they kept a good faith approach, and waited, along with the enthusiastic fans. What happened, though, was treachery: GF9 and WotC reached a settlement, but from this point on, simply stonewalled all communications with Tuan Publishing. Wizards of the Coast assumed responsibility for publishing D&D in four major languages (German, Italian, Spanish, and French), while not even deigning to send an official communication to the Hungarian licensee. And so it continues, with everything left hanging. The translation, created with much care and effort, is hanging in legal limbo due to a petty legal squabble between warring publishing giants. You can get the details from the video below (yes, Kildar really does speak that fast; it is his secret superpower).

I do not usually comment on new D&D: it is a fine game I do not really care about, and I have made peace with this situation. This, however, is scummy because it harms honest dealers and enthusiastic RPG fans. Shame on Wizards of the Coast and shame on Gale Force Nine for this charade, and for mistreating a Hungarian game company and Hungarian gamers. For a company that bloviates all day every day about doing the right thing, they sure don't mind fucking over the little guy when it is convenient for them. You know, when it is not a matter of virtue signalling about adventuring wheelchairs or hashtag politics, but following a business contract and serving a fan base, even if it is not your main bread and butter.

This is, naturally, par for course for the rainbow pony brigade. And obviously, them being a large company and Tuan being a small one in a small country, they can get away with it.

And still. Is this really a company you want to give your dollars to? Is this a publisher you can trust? Or, if by accident you are a small RPG publisher in another country reading this, who had thought of dealing with these guys: can you afford being next? Right.

Food for thought.

Dude, they fucked over the Spanish speaking market, and we're a lot more than you Hungarians.

What some Hungarian entrepreneur should do (IMHO) is to take some of the OSR games and translate them, as long as you pick wisely or edit carefully you can even sell them.

Dark Dungeons whole text is public domain. Except for the parts that fall under the OGL and the trademarks.

As I've mentioned on MeWe, something similar happened in Brazil. I wish I remembered all the details, maybe I can gather them later. (It was not all GF9's fault, there was local trouble between publishers too).

A vague outline, IIRC: there were three publishers working together to bring 5e with GF9, one of the three backstabbed the others trying to get the whole deal to themselves, and the whole thing came down, so we had to wait for a few years for ANOTHER company (a big boardgame/RPG company around here) to do the job. They did a decent job for what I can tell (well, some people complained about mistakes, delays, etc.), and managed to be a huge success AFAICT (I'd guess they sold more copies in Portuguese then they'll sell in Italian or French).

Recently, WoTC decided to take over the translation for no apparent reason. So, we are currently in limbo. fortunately, I bought the 5e books in English when they came out, and TBH I don't buy 5e stuff anymore because the new stuff doesn't seem interesting. Still, I want to see a thriving D&D scene here.

BTW, while I don't trust WotC at all, there seems to be something wrong with GF9. Some of their products (e.g., cards) are horrible), and their dealings seems to get messy too often.

Brazil and early on Japan got denied permissions to translate 5e.

WOTC really is their own worst enemy. Remember kids. Failure is the only option.

  That's sad. Poor people with all that fan goodwill and prepared work. It is the nature of business and money willing to get gritty and petty, but poor well-intentioned 3rd Party.

(And yes, Kildar probably should get a job reading Hungarian legal disclaimers for television ads. That was quite fast sounding, though I know not a lick of Hungarian.)

Well, not to let these poor people languish, could you share what you'd recommend from Tuan Publishing? Or are the project members working on any local RPG products that are pretty Display Table Parsley? I hear Hungarian is one of the hardest languages for English speakers to learn, but some of us are still interested in pretty things and usable maps and trinkets from around the world. 

This seems bizarre. Who walks away from money on the table like that? Translations can't be THAT expensive, can they?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 25, 2022, 08:39:24 AM
This seems bizarre. Who walks away from money on the table like that? Translations can't be THAT expensive, can they?

IMHO - It's all about tightening the screws on IP control. WotC has been bringing a lot of things in house lately.

In fact the DragonLance lawsuit from a year or so back was due to WotC trying to kill H&W book in favor of their own DL efforts that are now coming out the same year.

The same tactic of "withholding approvals" was used.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 09:35:30 PM
Dude, they fucked over the Spanish speaking market, and we're a lot more than you Hungarians.

What some Hungarian entrepreneur should do (IMHO) is to take some of the OSR games and translate them, as long as you pick wisely or edit carefully you can even sell them.

Dark Dungeons whole text is public domain. Except for the parts that fall under the OGL and the trademarks.

What Tuan Publishing should do is make an omlette out of these broken eggs.

The dark eye and sword world became the #1 Fantasy RPGS in Germany and Japan because TSR dropped the ball on D&D translations.

Tuan is already a publisher and they have the important bits translated.

They need to pull a pathfinder on WotC, Hungarian style.

Use the 5e OGL and put a Hungarian twist on things with some monsters and mythological cosmology. Taking care to keep it 5e compatible.

Look at what basic fantasy has done: https://www.basicfantasy.org/downloads.html

Some of their adventures are just re-written classic TSR modules like keep on the borderlands. They have been up there for years and WotC hasn't done squat about it.

It is a myth that you need every release to be this hardbound coffee table book. The 30 page module with cardstock cover maps on the inside made D&D in the 80's.

4-5 adventures a year, a fan magazine and they are in business.

Tuan Publishing already has a leg up with a done translation. No Reason to let it go to waste. Just take out the IP sensitive parts.

At the very least they should sound out the fanbase for such a move.

Back when TSR dumped localizing licensed publisher/distributors or refused to let someone license it led to stuff like Das Schwarze Auge, the original Warhammer, and Sword World.

So maybe we'll have some cool new rpg thing come out of Hungary we'll all was a piece of.

Never mind, I had the same thought as everyone and a year late. My bad.