Is the character out of the parameters?  yes.  Is it a cliche?  Yes.  Does that mean it couldn't be fun (I'd like to play Rambo once)? No.  Is it something the GM can work with?  Yes.

I don't know JimBobOz, but I bet after being around a long time as a GM and player, being as intelligent as he seems, that he could work this character in.  Yes, it means some re-working, but that could be a fun challenge.

Could you ask the player to remake the character?  yes.  But he did bring something he wanted to the character.  Therefore I would use it.

On the playing cliche end of things, I was able to play the "Avenging Rider in Black" once and he was a gas.  His background story was fun to write and he became something the party needed and feared.

Quote from: -E.This strikes me as workable -- sometimes having a character who's *outside* of the agreed parameters can work if the player is ready to put in the effort to have his crazy security guard be friends and work well with the other players/characters.

I'd make sure that the game *started out* with them being friends -- to ensure that this guy won't just wander off on his own...

And I'd make sure the other players were cool with that.

Agreed. And I'd add a couple of extra provisos:

- The cranky security guard is keen on the whole "urban exploration" deal, and has been befriended by the PCs precisely because he's campus security - he can get them into places they aren't normally allowed and dissuade campus security from arresting them. The other players have to agree that their PCs accept this guy as part of their group and trust him, and because they need him they are not going to leave him being for no good IC reason.

- In return for this consideration from the other players, the guy playing the security guard has to promise OOC that his PC will regard the other characters as friends and allies, at least at game start. If they treat him like shit IC then obviously he's within his rights to shun them IC, but at game start the security guard has to be willing to play nicely with the rest of them. This undermines the "loner" angle, but so does any meaningful interaction with the other PCs: the guy has to deal with it. There's a thousand and one ways he can rationalise this - given that the character has terrible post-traumatic stress, he could find that he feels afraid and uncomfortable unless he has company, and so tends to stick close to those few friends he has.

Quote from: JimBobOzLet me guess - you've got the first edition of UA, where they gave the example where the GM has an idea, everyone agrees to it, then some gamer brings along his girlfriend to game for the first time ever, and she says, "hey! We could be a family of inbred mutant cannibals!" and the game book says the GM is stupid if they don't go with that later, crazy idea.

Yeah, they took that out of 2nd edition. For a good reason - it's BOLLOCKS.

Actually, I'm running 2nd edition.

Sorry man, didn't mean to criticize you. I think you know what's best for your campaign and if you want to have set parameters for PCs, that's your call.

I'll just say that as a GM, I see UA as a game that allows a lot of flexibility for character concepts. It's one of its feature as far as I'm concerned. And as a player, I'd be really down not to be able to make one. It's an assumption that seems natural for the game, unlike, say, Spycraft.

IME, the weirdness effortlessly glues the group together regardless of backgrounds.

Anyway, let us know how you resolve the situation!

Quote from: lev_lafayetteJust for the record there were plenty of abandoned structures in Timor c1999.

You miss the point entirely:  His haunted war history in Timor has nothing to do with exploring abandoned structures.

Now if he'd said that instead of finding Colonel Kurtz and the heart of fucking darkness he'd gotten lost in a bomb-shelled city and wandered around for days and saw some odd or wondrous shit in there that made him always want to poke his nose into such places...  Sure!  Great character idea.

And here I thought you'd love it...considering he has the American slaughtering civilians and all...

Quote from: James J SkachAnd here I thought you'd love it...considering he has the American slaughtering civilians and all...

The fuck?  Who, me?

Huh?

:confused:

The more I look at it the more I wonder if this guy-the character- did receive psychiatric treatment, why was he eventually released back to active duty? Often as not that sort of thing can bring a real quick end to a career, what made his case different?

Was it just a need for warm bodies at the time? Or was he somehow undiagnosed, or misdiagnosed?

It's a small thing to be sure, but it stands out.

Quote from: JimBobOzLoner Badarse In Sunglasses #4,203,788 sounds cool to you?

The campaign wiki is here. The players were asked in person to create a character who was a university student with an interest in "urban exploration", and who'd had some small supernatural experience - not enough to make them loopy, just enough to make their minds open to further experiences.

Instead, I got Loner Badarse In Sunglasses #4,203,788.

It's like being 16 and playing Cyberpunk 2020 again.

Your attitude strikes me as one of elitism.As if you were somehow higher in the scale of things.  
Weren't you young and daft once?
Can't you easily and simply tell the offending player "No you can't have Rambo as a character, follow my guidelines or find a more relaxed GM to abuse!" instead of whining like some Forgeite about it?

Quote from: Serious PaulThe more I look at it the more I wonder if this guy-the character- did receive psychiatric treatment, why was he eventually released back to active duty? Often as not that sort of thing can bring a real quick end to a career, what made his case different?

Was it just a need for warm bodies at the time? Or was he somehow undiagnosed, or misdiagnosed?

A devilish GM could play it a number of ways, including:

A: He was brought back as part of a special program (something with plenty of UA weirdness)

B: He never resumed duty. He just THINKS he did. After treatment, he hallucinated the rest of his career.

There are plenty of ways you can play it out, with or without the player's knowledge and incorporate this in story arcs. The person who treated him could be a full-on UA weirdo, deep in the occult or something.

So many possibilities...

Quote from: Consonant DudeThe person who treated him could be a full-on UA weirdo, deep in the occult or something.

Just from a player stand point (don't know UA), I think this is a good hook.

Quote from: Consonant DudeSorry man, didn't mean to criticize you. I think you know what's best for your campaign and if you want to have set parameters for PCs, that's your call.

You can criticise me. My parameters might be stupid. I post stuff so people can tell me what they think, so thanks.

Quote from: Consonant DudeI'll just say that as a GM, I see UA as a game that allows a lot of flexibility for character concepts. It's one of its feature as far as I'm concerned. And as a player, I'd be really down not to be able to make one. It's an assumption that seems natural for the game, unlike, say, Spycraft.

To me, it doesn't seem a natural assumption - flexibility sure, craziness, no. Not in a "street level" campaign.

I told the players we'd have a "street level" campaign, and the "Circle of Friends" would be the model for the character group.

Have a look at Chapter Two: Street Campaign. Now slide over to the second page of that, p.27, "Creating Your Group." What's the first suggestion? "Circle of Friends." Now have a look at this,

Quote from: UALiabilities

Sometimes friends piss each-other off, or worse. You probably don't have the range of skills and experiences that formalized groups do. No-one is going to take a bunch of dilettantes like you seriosuly. Since you live real lives outside of the occult underground, you're more vulnerable to those who would hurt you.

I told the players this'd be the thing. It's right there on p.27 of the book, or p.17 as Adobe sees it, in the pdf preview of the game, which I linked to for them to download and make use of in character generation.

I don't think there's anything intrinsic in Unknown Armies which says you all have to be freaks. You have to be obsessive, sure, and you have to have strong rages, strong fears, and a strong instinct of nobility; you also have to have had some sort of supernatural experience. But these things don't have to dominate your life. You don't have to begin as a freak.

You might end up as a freak, but you don't have to start out as a freak.

That's the other thing - his character background is of someone with several Failed and Hardened Notches - and you can only start off with three of each. If someone else were to take that write-up and use it to make a character, they couldn't do it in the "street level" character creation, they'd have to exceed those. In terms of game mechanics, it's the equivalent of saying that his guy has got a Nobel Prize for Literature, but also for Economics and Medicine. He wouldn't have the skill points for it, you'd have to exceed the character generation guideliness.

Quote from: Consonant DudeIME, the weirdness effortlessly glues the group together regardless of backgrounds.

I find weirdness usually drives groups apart - at the player level. Because players begin by creating characters which are entirely individual, they go on to play them as complete individuals. The more idnividual and freaky they are, the less together the group is. That's been my experience.

I don't mean that adventuring parties should be some kind of hive-mind, just that if you're laying in a campaign where the characters are meant to be somewhat human, well, humans are connected to one another. Everyone has someone in their life, past or present. Even that poor girl who was kidnapped from her parents kept locked up by the guy for years on end, she had him in her life. She now feels only contempt for him, and scorns any idea that she's beaten-down and traumatised, but still, a relationship with another person defined her as she is.

Only player-characters ever grow up completely alone.

See, I never objected to a character background of being a friendless orphan, as such. If the player says, "my guy was a friendless orphan, and because of that now seeks out others' company, and will be desperately loyal to those who treat him well," I'd say, "great!" But if they say, "my guy was a friendless orphan, and now trusts no-one, and never will," then this is going to be the guy who says, "I roll to dodge the adventure," the guy who has their character wander away from everything.

If I wanted to run a one-on-one campaign, I would. I've done so in the past. Now, though, I'd like to run a campaign with a group.

Quote from: Consonant DudeAnyway, let us know how you resolve the situation!

I think it'll resolve itself. He's making a new character. I think he just got carried away as he read the intro pdf. Still, it's scary.

Quote from: RedFoxYou miss the point entirely: His haunted war history in Timor has nothing to do with exploring abandoned structures.

Now if he'd said that instead of finding Colonel Kurtz and the heart of fucking darkness he'd gotten lost in a bomb-shelled city and wandered around for days and saw some odd or wondrous shit in there that made him always want to poke his nose into such places... Sure! Great character idea.

Exactly.

I wanted the players to tie their character to the campaign in just two ways - uni student, and interest in urban exploration. That gives you a lot of freedom in character generation, still. Have a look around a uni - there are seventeen year kids fresh out of school with no kinds of life experiences, spoon-fed exam-passing information by their teachers, there are military and police officers doing part-time courses, there are middle-aged housewives doing stuff part-time just for interest, or to get themselves a career after their mothering career is over, there are corporate types doing MBAs, there are foreign students from Brasil, Nigeria, Ghana, Hong Kong, Japan... there's a great variety of people at a university, of all ages, genders, races, faiths, personality types, with different goals and ideas.

It's not a huge restriction, I think, saying they have to be uni students.

And just as I was writing this, he was doing another character; his take 2 is heaps better. It needs some fine-tuning, but is basically sound.

   Growing up in a small country town, Cadel always wanted to see what the outside world had to offer apart from getting up early to milk the cows. Having a life on a farm meant having to be independent at an early age, riding motorbikes, driving utes and being able to work with your hands. In particular he showed an interest in the mechanical side of things especially motors whether it be cars or bikes. He was forever pulling shit apart and putting it back together not always in the right place. Due to this knack it meant that he gained a place in the Engineering school at the University.

It was during his first year at Uni that he began to experience strange thoughts like mental suggestion. He began to want and need useless items. At about the same time he was adopted by a stray cat. One night he awoke to a howling ruckus in his room, the stray cat (who he'd taken to calling Grizzle) was turning things over in an apparent fight. He eventually got hold of the animal and was about to turf it out when it spoke to him and told him of "The Green Eyed Monster" that was sitting on his shoulder with it's wicked little whispers.

Since that incident he has become a volunteer at a local pet shelter convinced that Cats are here to protect us from what we cannot see.

Trigger:Having a cat tell him he was being controlled by a green eyed monster.

Fear:Helplessness being at the mercy of The Unknown.

Rage:Cruelty to animals, they are here to help treat them with respect.

Noble:Sacrifice, what can I do to help?

Obsession:Mechanical

Quote from: RedFoxThe fuck?  Who, me?

Huh?

:confused:

No no...sorry...screwed up in posting.  That was @ JimBob.

I assumed he'd know since he likes slagging Americans so much.

Quote from: James J SkachAnd here I thought you'd love it...considering he has the American slaughtering civilians and all...

His character, the original Loner Badarse, was supposed to be Australian. You'll note that he was in UNAMET, which had no US presence. On the other hand, he was in the Gulf in '91, and in fact the Australian Regular Army wasn't present for that (except for a few SAS, and some Air Defence guys manning SAMs strapped on the decks of RAN ships). I put that down to the player's lack of historical knowledge; it was 15 years ago, after all. And it was a minor point, so I didn't mention it.

I'm not in favour of any player-character having been involved in slaughtering civilians. And while I happily mock Americans, I don't think they are genocidal maniacs, or their armed forces inherently criminal.

But thanks for you contribution to the tread, Skach. Real helpful.

My pleasure JimBob.  For every time you make some stupid off-hand reference to "being American,"  I'll feel free to post to a thread of yours that helps in no way.

That way we can both feel good about it!

Carry on...