Quote from: RosenMcStern;919583In the Italian language, we call this "la supercazzola sbrematurata con lo scappellamento a destra, come se fosse Antani".

Or, as Bren said, "3 combat turns".

Three minutes to kill one single enemy.

Sorry, but this breaks my very personal suspension of disbelief. If I were you, I would make some appropriate considerations. And I only say this because I find the other details of your game Very Promising and Well Devised.

The typical Hollywood climactic sword fight scene takes between five to ten minutes.  I am not interested in "realism" in my D&D game in the slightest.  YMMV.

To a lot of us, it just plain isn't an issue.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919721The typical Hollywood climactic sword fight scene takes between five to ten minutes.  I am not interested in "realism" in my D&D game in the slightest.  YMMV.

And all of the other fight scenes with faceless, unnamed mooks during the movie take a few seconds. It's great that minute-long turns work for you, but most Hollywood movies and D&D don't make for a great comparison.

Quote from: Brand55;919724And all of the other fight scenes with faceless, unnamed mooks during the movie take a few seconds.

Fighters, <1HD creatures in AD&D. Look it up, young gamer.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919721The typical Hollywood climactic sword fight scene takes between five to ten minutes.  I am not interested in "realism" in my D&D game in the slightest.  YMMV.

Actually, as someone who timed it, you'd be wrong.  Most CLIMATIC end fights last between 3-5 minutes.  And often are one on one fights.  So unless you hand wave all the goblin raider fights (the ones that show up between 20 to 200 in the entire dungeon, I will concede that I, and many other local DMs may have misread the amount showing) and skip right to the fight with the Goblin King, Orc Chief, Dragon or what-have-you, then you're even more wrong and have less clue about timing in an action movie.

10 minutes for a fight scene between the hero and villain?  That's an annoying drag that would bore most people watching.  It works best in a video game because you're controlling one actor/playing piece yourself.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919721To a lot of us, it just plain isn't an issue.

Now, again, this is purely anecdotal, but for us, back in my 2e days, it also wasn't an issue because we often quickly FORGOT that rounds were 1 minute long.  Simply because we didn't mentally envision the Errol Flynn dashing and one handed sports dandy dancing with a rapier with an Orc brute playing the role of the Cardinal, or just one of his captains to our musketeers.

Our eyes simply glazed over at how stupid it sounded, and played the game our way.  Which yes, yes, I know is the wrong way, but we weren't at the ground floor after all.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;919728Fighters, <1HD creatures in AD&D. Look it up, young gamer.

AD&D 1e, NOT in 2e.  Please make sure you get your editions right.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;919728Fighters, <1HD creatures in AD&D. Look it up, young gamer.

I don't need to. Not every character on-screen is a fighter so that rule doesn't apply. Sometimes none of them are. And sometimes the character who goes down swiftly is not insignificant. Yet time and again we see quick fights where someone is taken out in one or two blows that take but a moment, or we see a longer fight of a minute or two where dozens of unnamed baddies are taken out.

That's the thing. If one-minute rounds works for you, that's great. Stick with them and have fun. I'm just saying that Hollywood presents fight scenes in so many different ways with so many variables that basically every system of tracking combat out there can point to it as inspiration, making it somewhat pointless.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;919733AD&D 1e, NOT in 2e.  Please make sure you get your editions right.

That helps, as I didn't recall that from 2e and never played the first edition. Then again, we didn't use all the rules as-written in 2e and it was a long time ago so I could have easily been forgetting it.

*shrug*

"I play an edition of a game which doesn't have the rules I like."
"Here, this other edition does, play that instead."
"I play an edition of a game which doesn't have the rules I like."

Play AD&D1e. Or houserule 2e. But either way, stop complaining. If you want most fights against strong foes to take a while, and most fights against faceless goons to be quick, the (house) rule is there for you to use.

As for non-fighters, It reminds me of when we played Recon, "but why can't my medic be a demolitions expert and sniper too?" Non-fighters should have a hard time in melee against faceless goons. It's the fighter's job to cut down faceless goons like a farmer scything through long grass, the other classes have other jobs.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;919742As for non-fighters, It reminds me of when we played Recon, "but why can't my medic be a demolitions expert and sniper too?" Non-fighters should have a hard time in melee against faceless goons. It's the fighter's job to cut down faceless goons like a farmer scything through long grass, the other classes have other jobs.

No one said otherwise. But those rules don't apply to movies, where everyone from the heavily-muscled warrior to the plucky child sidekick can take out a bad guy in one shot.

I got lucky to play once with Dave Arneson at PacifiCon in the Bay Area. Dave's rule for fighters was that if you killed something, you got a free attack. AKA, cleave. Since that day, I ditched the RAW and gave all 0e Fighters "Kill & Kill Again!" which has been a huge hit with players.

As I use 1D6 for base damage and 1D6 for HDs in my 0e games, its quite common for fighters to chop down 3-4 bandits, gobins or babies in one round which for players is really great fun.

As for the 1 minute round...whatevs. One of the many rules that got tossed out long ago from our table, but we still use 1 turn = 10 minutes = 10 rounds, but since all D&D combat is abstract, its a non-issue for us to abstract how long a round may be. A round is the time it takes to do your thing.

RPG rules are full of weirdness, and you either roll with them or change them. I don't know what's the wonkier rule - the 1 minute D&D rounds or the 1 second GURPS rounds. But in actual play, we pretty much used them the same.

Quote from: Bren;919598Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. Always assuming they don't isn't a better solution than always assuming they do. Rounds of short duration with enforced fast action declaration can provide hesitation. Of course that hesitation is based on player ability rather than on the ability of the character.

Yes. Unless you add the pausing to the game mechanics, too. In my house rules, Combat Awareness is often one of the most important measures of effectiveness in combat. It also lets you game someone, who can sometimes avoid or get past goons without actually fighting them (maybe not even using a weapon), by confusing or faking them out.

Quote from: Spinachcat;919747RPG rules are full of weirdness, and you either roll with them or change them. I don't know what's the wonkier rule - the 1 minute D&D rounds or the 1 second GURPS rounds. But in actual play, we pretty much used them the same.

I don't know which is more wonky, but in my experience the 1 minute round makes things go faster.  As referee I'm not afraid to make a rough guess of "this is how much you can do in a round" and nobody's ever complained.  This is why a friend 30 years younger than I tossed over D&D 3whatever/Pathfinder and got the PDFs of OD&D after playing in my campaign.  To quote, "I like the fact that if I want to sneak up behind somebody and knock him out I just say so, you roll the dice, it either happens or it doesn't, and we get on with the damn game."

I wonder if a wargame background influences preferences.  Except for Korns' rules, historical wargames tend to have long turns (yes, combat turns too) and an abstract combat resolution.  For instance, TRACTICS considers a turn to be ten minutes of movement and one minute of fire.  The fact that not moving does not let you fire ten times bothers absolutely nobody I've ever encountered in 45 years of playing.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;919824I wonder if a wargame background influences preferences.  Except for Korns' rules, historical wargames tend to have long turns (yes, combat turns too) and an abstract combat resolution.  For instance, TRACTICS considers a turn to be ten minutes of movement and one minute of fire.  The fact that not moving does not let you fire ten times bothers absolutely nobody I've ever encountered in 45 years of playing.

I tend to agree, because the people writing and playing those rules are familiar with how battles actually play out, either through study or first-hand experience. Thus, the understanding that people typically don't fight-fight-fight continually, and instead are prone to the dithering, cowering, hiding, catching their breath, etc, for considerable stretches that I mentioned up-thread.

That sort of phenomenon gets happily abstracted in a longer combat round, which provides a realistic tempo but also doesn't enforce "you have to sit doing nothing for the next 10 rounds to catch your breath" rules that might not be as fun.

I've been rereading the AD&D1e PHB lately and I was surprised to find a rule (pg 25) that all Fighter classes get one attack per level against 1HD (less than d8) monsters and all zero-level humans, etc...   I totally forgot that AD&D had a so called "mook rule".  So your 12th level fighter against a goblin mob can get 12 attacks in.  Then the 1-minute round starts to look a bit better.