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one for Old West history buffs

Started by 3rik, October 14, 2011, 10:01:43 AM

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3rik

I think the Firearms Shop is excellent, especially because of the way it can be used with Coyote Trail, i.e. adding more variation but not more crunch or fiddly bits.
Technical detail on firearms in Coyote Trail is very sparse but it suffices, taking into account the default 1870s setting. If you want to set your game earlier, the Firearms Shop will be very useful. I might even run an 1850s game sometime.
It\'s not Its

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Grimace

So, Hombre, have you been given enough information to get you going on your adventure building?

3rik

I think that for now I got enough to work with but you're all welcome to add more. :)
It\'s not Its

"It\'s said that governments are chiefed by the double tongues" - Ten Bears (The Outlaw Josey Wales)

@RPGbericht

3rik

No, wait. An issue I have run into conerning the Old West in general is the confusing use of law enforcement titles. Is there anyone who can shed any light on the difference between a sheriff and a town marshall? I was told a sheriff was tied to a county rather than one town. A town would then have a town marshall except if it was the county seat, which is where the sheriff resided.
It\'s not Its

"It\'s said that governments are chiefed by the double tongues" - Ten Bears (The Outlaw Josey Wales)

@RPGbericht

Gruntfuttock

You are correct - townships had marshalls, while the Sheriff was responsible for the county. Marshalls were appointed and paid by the town council and they generally picked someone who was happy to use lethal force if required - often a noted gunman. Sheriffs were elected, and as a political appointment the job sometimes attracted people who weren't obvious hardcases. In which case the Sheriff would make sure their Deputy Sheriffs (who they picked) could use a gun.

And the county seat would have both a Marshall and a Sheriff - which sometimes caused problems over jurisdiction, especially if the two law officers were members of different political factions. Look at the background to the gunfight at the OK Corral - the Sheriff tried to stop the Earps (the town Marshall and his deputies) from going down to the Corral to have a final confrontation with the Clantons. All good roleplaying inspiration!

The US Marshalls and their Deputies were above all these local lawmen, but dealt with different crimes - mainly fugitives from justice - so rarely had conflict with town Marshalls and county Sheriffs (unless these lawmen were crooked, which of course they sometimes were!)
"It was all going so well until the first disembowelment."

Gruntfuttock

Oh, I should have said above that Sheriff Behan (I think that was the name) couldn't stop the Earps, as the Marshall had jurisdiction in the town - the county seat - and he didn't. I may be wrong on that, but I'm buggered if I'm going to check now as I'm drinking nice wine and this chair is comfy.

On another note, setting the game in the earlier 'cap and ball' pistol period has a lot to commend it. Tactically, with slow reloading times (spare loaded cylinders not withstanding) you have to make every shot count, and a confrontation could come down to knives and fists, and running away is sometimes an easy option as they can't shoot you in the back. Also the earlier period in American history has a lot going for it.

Personally I've always had a wish to run a game set in the California gold rush, before the civil war. This time and place as a setting has great potential. American-Mexican war vets, Mexican resistance to the US takeover, gold diggers from every part of the world, swarming into San Francisco (not just Europeans, but also Chinese, South Americans, Australians...) Lawless and violent with lawmen struggling to deal with bandits being pushed aside by vigilantes.

If anyone is interested in a Barbary Coast campaign, I'd recommend a book by John Boessenecker - 'Gold Dust & Gunsmoke' - it covers everything you need to get a Californian gold rush game up and running.

Unfortunately my players have never been as interested in the old west as I am, so it's a hard sell. And also, if I was to run such a game I might be even more tempted to run one set around Australian bushrangers - but that's another thread.
"It was all going so well until the first disembowelment."

3rik

I think I'd have trouble visualizing that setting for my players to make it "look" different from the western films they're familiar with.

The 1860s Rupert's Land game I suggested earlier on in the thread would also be cool but I'd need some decent source material, especially visuals, to set that up.
It\'s not Its

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@RPGbericht

RPGPundit

Its a useful distinction to note, because people tend to assume "sheriff= town", while "marshall = federales".

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3rik

It was seeing references to a "town sheriff" that caused my confusion. Apparently, or so I have been told, "town sheriff" may be another way to refer to a marshall, to distinguish them from a federal marshall... :idunno:
It\'s not Its

"It\'s said that governments are chiefed by the double tongues" - Ten Bears (The Outlaw Josey Wales)

@RPGbericht

GameDaddy

#39
Other Law Enforcement groups included Pinkerton Detectives (Usually hired to protect the trains), but some carried their jurisdiction much farther and wider, especially with a letter from the State or Territory Governor.

There were also Texas Rangers founded in 1823. Originally these were mounted companies of rifleman that fought bandits and mexican incursions. They got into law enforcement in the 1870's becuase there were so many outlaws in Texas.

Then there were the U.S. Marshals. The offices of U.S. Marshals and Deputy Marshal were created by the first Congress in the Judiciary Act of 1789, The Marshals were given extensive authority to support the federal courts within their judicial districts and to carry out all lawful orders issued by judges, Congress, or the president. They were the only Law Enforcement unit with a limited tenure, serving for four year renewable terms, and were appointed by the president. Their primary function was to support the federal courts. The Marshals and their Deputies served the subpoenas, summonses, writs, warrants and other process issued by the courts, made all the arrests and handled all the prisoners. They also disbursed the money. The Marshals paid the fees and expenses of the court clerks, U.S. Attorneys, jurors and witnesses. They rented the courtrooms and jail space and hired the bailiffs, criers, and janitors. In effect, they ensured that the courts functioned smoothly.

reference:
http://www.usmarshals.gov/history/index.html

There were Justice of the Peace.
A justice of the peace (JP) is a lesser judicial officer elected or appointed by means of a commission (letters patent) to keep the peace. Depending on the jurisdiction, they might dispense summary justice or merely deal with local administrative applications in common law jurisdictions. Justices of the peace are appointed or elected from the citizens of the jurisdiction in which they serve, and are (or were) usually not required to have a formal legal education in order to qualify for the office. Some jurisdictions have varying forms of training for JPs (for example Arizona, Victoria, and the United Kingdom).

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_of_the_peace

Finally there is a Posse.
Which was a body or groups of men the sheriff could summon to help him enforce the law.
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Grimace

And let's not forget about the vigilantes!  They were modestly prevelant in Montana during this time period.  They were your common folks with weapons.  People got tired of the law not doing their job, or got tired of the law that may have gone corrupt, and took law into their own hands.  They formed vigilante groups (essentially a posse without any legal authority) and rode out to exact their definition of justice.

For the most part, the vigilantes dealt with corruption and particularly heinous crimes that the civilians thought a person was guilty of even if the law couldn't prove it.  

They made "hangin trees" where they'd string up the guilty party/parties.  In some towns, like Virginia City, MT, they even utilized exposed beams of buildings that were being constructed for really impromptu hangings.  

Vigilantes weren't always the best, but they were somewhat prevelant in Montana around the time you're talking about running a game.  You can check out this site for more information on vigilantes in Montana:  http://montana-vigilantes.org/

BillDowns

Quote from: HombreLoboDomesticado;486010I think I'd have trouble visualizing that setting for my players to make it "look" different from the western films they're familiar with.
If you're basing your game on western films, then it may be a whole different thing altogether.  If you mean spaghetti westerns, like Sergio Leone, or the Hollywood westerns of the 60's and 70's, then just make it up.  They did. The west was nothing like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly or Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

It was more like Open Range, Monte Walsh (the 2003 production), or the latest True Grit.
 

3rik

What I meant is I have plenty of materials to visualize the historical, post civil war, wild west for my players, but not for the California Gold Rush period.

I'm mainly using historical photographs or reconstructive illustrations, not films.
It\'s not Its

"It\'s said that governments are chiefed by the double tongues" - Ten Bears (The Outlaw Josey Wales)

@RPGbericht