Quote from: Exploderwizard;706413So an AC of 21+ is pointless. I will hit AC 20 on a 20. I will also hit AC 26 on a 20.

Considering how difficult it is to get an AC over 20/under -1 in non-3.x/4 D&D, yeah, I don't think it really matters. The Red Box solved this by allowing extra damage for high level characters. If you could hit someone on a -5, you instead got to add 5 to your damage roll (assuming you didn't roll a 1).

That's another point: in AD&D, a 1 isn't an automiss. In fact, high level fighters never miss ever. So the replication of 20s has a reason beyond making ridiculously good ACs useful.

Quote from: Brad;706418Considering how difficult it is to get an AC over 20/under -1 in non-3.x/4 D&D, yeah, I don't think it really matters.

In a mid level AD&D game it is REALLY easy for a fighter to an AC -1 (21)...

Quote from: Arduin;706419In a mid level AD&D game it is REALLY easy for a fighter to an AC -1 (21)...

Yeah, I was referring specifically to non-AD&D. Red Box, Moldvay/Cook, whatever.

S&W is not an AD&D clone, so if he's looking for that, he'd be better off using OSRIC.

Quote from: Arduin;706419In a mid level AD&D game it is REALLY easy for a fighter to an AC -1 (21)...

Depends on a number of factors like the average stats of the fighter character, whether he's walking around with a field plate and shield which comes with its own set of drawbacks, how you generate magical items in the game, whether randomly or on purpose or a little bit of both, whether you have Ye Olde Magic Shoppe in the campaign and these sorts of things, the types of activities of the party and the game milieu at large which affects the odds to get to that type of items, etc, so it could vary greatly between DMs and campaigns, but in general, I would GUESS that in the average campaign it's very possible a Hero (4th+ level) playing the tank might get in the negatives, sure.

Quote from: Benoist;706422Depends on a number of factors like the average stats of the fighter character, whether he's walking around with a field plate and shield which comes with its own set of drawbacks, how you generate magical items in the game, whether randomly or on purpose, whether you have Ye Olde Magic Shoppe in the campaign and these sorts of things, so it could vary greatly between DMs, but in general, I would GUESS that in the average campaign it's very possible a Hero (4th+ level) playing the tank might get in the negatives, sure.

With NO Dex bonus it is easy.  I'm talking a standard mid level game.  Not a house ruled low magic game.  I didn't say that plate didn't have drawbacks.  But, after playing 1st Ed for >30 years, it is VERY usual for a mid level fighter to have that level of AC.  I'm thinking of ~6th level game BTW.  No magic shoppes as per the original flavor of the game.

Quote from: Arduin;706423With NO Dex bonus it is easy.  I'm talking a standard mid level game.  Not a house ruled low magic game.  I didn't say that plate didn't have drawbacks.  But, after playing 1st Ed for >30 years, it is VERY usual for a mid level fighter to have that level of AC.  I'm thinking of ~6th level game BTW.  No magic shoppes as per the original flavor of the game.

Why are you getting defensive about this? I don't get it.

But let me ask you this: are you generating all the monsters' treasure by the book, as indicated in the random treasure generation tables of the Monster Manual, rolling the dice each time? Are you then rolling on the random treasure tables when special items are indicated by the result of the dice? Because that too is a valid by the book way of playing the game (well not really per EGG advice pages 91-93 of the DMG, but there is a lot of excluded middle between never using random charts and using them all the time, which is really my point). Actually, by the book, you can place treasure and manage these things in a variety of ways, so what I was really saying there was that the way the DM interprets the advice and uses the tools in the DMG will matter by the book in whether things like magic plates and shields will come up easily in the game or not.

Add to this that the campaign might mostly take place in a dungeon, or maybe in the wilderness, or in urban settings depending on a variety of factors like what the players like to do what the DM wants to run etc and yeah, these things will vary from table to table.

Quote from: Benoist;706424Why are you getting defensive about this? I don't get it.

No just clarifying that I was thinking of a bit higher level than you.  And too add no Ye Olde Magic Shoppe's.

Quote from: Silverlion;706417Is there a print copy up somewhere I can buy? (In the nearish future?)

I ordered mine straight from Frog God Games.

http://talesofthefroggod.com/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook

Quote from: Silverlion;706417Is there a print copy up somewhere I can buy? (In the nearish future?)

The main place is Frog God Games' storefront.

Noble Knight usually has print copies in stock as well with favorable pricing and shipping charges from what I remember.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;706413So an AC of 21+ is pointless. I will hit AC 20 on a 20. I will also hit AC 26 on a 20.

Maybe S&W doesn't use "1 always misses, 20 always hits" rule. If not it usually isn't something so hard to remove. Just depends on how the game's NPC stats are structured afterwards.

Cheers for the free .pdf tenkar i shall ensure it gets a good reading and such

Quote from: Opaopajr;706474Maybe S&W doesn't use "1 always misses, 20 always hits" rule. If not it usually isn't something so hard to remove. Just depends on how the game's NPC stats are structured afterwards.

Page 40 makes note of it as a common house. And goes further and recommend NOT to award anything beyond a +1 to damage as a further bonus. Noting that many award double damage.

I personally use the rule that a natural 20 is an automatic hit and you get your max damage + a regular damage roll. Furthermore you get to roll again and if you roll another nat 20 you get to add max damage again and keep on doing this as long as you roll natural 20s. In four years of using this rule the maximum I had was four nat 20s in a roll.

Quote from: Tenkar;706130Would the solution be to open a new thread about the OSR Bundle of Holding?

Anyhow, thanks for the shout out and enjoy your S&W Complete

Welcome.  It is great to see you visiting a new corner of the web.

Quote from: Votan;706553Welcome.  It is great to see you visiting a new corner of the web.

Oh, I've visited many a time prior, just lurked in the shadows

Well done. Very nicely produced and with many options. And free!